Unlike NCAA and Its Cowardly Approach, USA Swimming Demonstrated Leadership With New Transgender Policy

Unlike NCAA and Its Cowardly Approach, USA Swimming Demonstrated Leadership With New Transgender Policy

Sometimes, it’s amazing how a single issue can prompt such dichotomous reactions. Not so much in the opinions possessed, for the United States – it can be argued – is as fractured as it has ever been. Rather, the stunning part is how two groups charged with leadership duties can go about their business in such distinct fashion.

We saw an example in the past week. It was the NCAA vs. USA Swimming in a battle of governing bodies and action.

Rare are the days here in early 2022 when the debate surrounding Lia Thomas and transgender participation in sports is not a primary topic. It has been a leading theme in the sport for two months, at the forefront of discussion due to Thomas’ transition to female, and her desire to compete as a member of the women’s program at the University of Pennsylvania.

As soon as Thomas raced to a pair of nation-leading times in the 200 freestyle and 500 freestyle during an early-season invitational, the debate over fairness took off. How much of a boost would Thomas maintain from her male-puberty advantage? What about the spots – relay and travel team – she would take from biological females? How would organizing bodies rule on the issue of fairness, and when?

With the NCAA Women’s Championships scheduled for Atlanta in mid-March, decisions and guideline adjustments required quick attention. The athletes involved – including Thomas – needed some clarity over the situation. For their parts, the NCAA and USA Swimming could not have carried themselves in more divergent fashion.

In the simplest breakdown, the situation unfolded in the following manner.

The NCAA took a cowardly approach, unwilling to identify its own guidelines and bylaws for the participation of transgender athletes in collegiate sports, specifically male-to-female transitions. Instead of drafting its own policy – regardless of support – the NCAA ran away from a difficult situation, and ultimately revealed it would follow whatever policy was adopted by USA Swimming.

On the other side, USA Swimming – for the betterment of its members – took a proactive approach. After initially indicating it was working with FINA on a transgender-inclusion policy, USA Swimming didn’t sit back and wait. With guts, it took a leading step forward and presented specific guidelines for how the organization would handle transgender-eligibility situations. In part, here is what USA Swimming decided in its new Athlete Inclusion, Competitive Equity and Eligibility Policy.

The elite athlete policy will be implemented by a decision-making panel comprised of three independent medical experts and eligibility criteria will consist of:

• Evidence that the prior physical development of the athlete as a male, as mitigated by any medical intervention, does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over the athlete’s cisgender female competitors.

• Evidence that the concentration of testosterone in the athlete’s serum has been less than 5 nmol/L (as measured by liquid chromatography coupled with mass spectrometry) continuously for a period of at least thirty-six (36) months before the date of application.

One group cowered in the corner.

One organization led the way.

Look, there is no mystery where I stand on this issue. Since the debate ignited, the argument here has been that Thomas should not race at the Ivy League Championships or the NCAA Championships. While it is terrific that Thomas has embraced her true gender identity, her inherent advantages – testosterone development, physical differences, lung capacity, etc. – from male puberty have provided an undeniable edge over biological females.

From the start, this situation has been one about fairness – nothing more and nothing less. Of course, certain individuals have tried to peg those supporting biological females and their right to an equal playing field as transphobic. It is a go-to approach. And USA Swimming, through its stringent new guidelines, has already been accused – in some articles and on social media – as taking an anti-trans stance.

No way. What USA Swimming did concerning this debate is place fairness at the center of the discussion. The governing body represents thousands of athletes and it needed to create bylaws that protected the opportunities of its biological females. Unlike the NCAA, it didn’t leave the decision in the hands of another group. It also ensured that the women’s sports category wasn’t ripped apart, but instead was recognized as important and deserving of respect. Meanwhile, at the non-elite level, USA Swimming noted that it would continue to foster involvement and participation of transgender athletes.

As USA Swimming developed its elite policy, it clearly performed considerable research and involved multiple stakeholders. It also provided evidence and details which emphasized why its action was necessary.

“The development of the elite policy therefore acknowledges a competitive difference in the male and female categories and the disadvantages this presents in elite head-to-head competition,” the USA Swimming policy states. “This is supported by statistical data that shows that the top-ranked female in 2021, on average, would be ranked 536th across all short-course yards (25 yards) male events in the country and 326th across all long-course meters (50 meters) male events in the country, among USA Swimming members. The policy therefore supports the need for competitive equity at the most elite levels of competition.”

Once the USA Swimming decision was rendered, leading women’s sports advocate Nancy Hogshead-Makar acknowledged the promising development. A three-time Olympic champion, Hogshead-Makar has long fought for equality in women’s sports and has used her broad and respected voice to draw attention to this debate – even before the Thomas debate surged into the national spotlight.

In the days after the USA Swimming release, Hogshead-Makar helped 16 members of the Penn women’s team and their families draft a letter to the NCAA, Ivy League and University of Pennsylvania urging them to abide by the organization’s guidelines, and not sue. That letter was sent a day after Penn formally stated that members of the women’s team supported Thomas, despite only a few athletes truly taking that stance.

A little more than a month before the NCAA Champs, it remains to be seen if the NCAA, as it previously noted, will abide by USA Swimming’s new rules. In recent days, the collegiate governing body indicated it will review the situation at a meeting in late February. Yes, it’s a typical NCAA move – waiting several weeks and just before the Championships before making a call. Leaving athletes to again blow in the wind? To no surprise, the NCAA is certainly checking that box.

If Thomas is absent from the NCAA Champs, as should be the case, it is necessary to provide her with a chance to race in peak form in some fashion. A time trial or an exhibition could work. It would allow her to demonstrate her prowess in an environment not detrimental and unfair to biological females.

Clearly, more chapters to this saga will be written. But for now, USA Swimming deserves applause for its recent actions and how it has handled this current dilemma of transgender participation. The organization took a brave stance. It didn’t hide. It didn’t defer to another group. It protected fairness for its female members.

Well done.

All commentaries are the opinion of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Swimming World Magazine nor its staff.

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SETH

2 years ago

Transphobia is transphobia.

-3

Susan

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Seth, There is nothing transphobic about all this. It’s about fairness to cisgender female athletes period. Stop trying to make it into something else. Obvious deflecting.

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Susan

Susan, I have my opinion, and you have yours.

DAn

2 years ago

Reply to Susan

I agree with you 100% Susan fairness is the issue

SONIA EIBER

2 years ago

Reply to Susan

This is a step in the right direction for biological females!

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Transgenders need their OWN decision with their own scholarships and own records….. leave the born females scholarships and records alone!

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

This is it ..earn your way fairly in life like the rest of us.

-1

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Until that trans person has a period, he needs to stay out of the pool with the women.

-1

Patricia Cornell

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Yes..leave trans male to female persons to set up their own competition organization. Women’s Swimming is that ….women who on their birth certificate says Girl.

-1

Erica Whitley

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Agree if woman compete with men then why should Trans be allowed to compete with women they should have their own division to compete against other Trans and that if the fair way for everyone this really sucks

-1

Alfred

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

I am going to mention this again, since I did not get a response last time in another thread. Are transwomen male-phobic? Are transmen female-phobic? They do not want to be with their biological gender–what does this say about *them*? Should so-called cis-gendered people be offended by their obvious distaste for their biological makeup? Or is it that the feminine or masculine side of their nature is stronger than their biology? Before condemning others, you must understand your own motivations.

Nick

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

You obviously to have your own opinion. What’s shocking is how much you stand by it dispute how wildly unpopular it is!

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Nick

Most adults have opinions and stick to their beliefs, unconcerned about popularity, because they are adults.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Seth. Equalty. Fairness. is not transphobic. Live the genderyou want. but you may not be able to compete in the elite sports. You still can enjoy cpmpeting. Certainly you can appreciate the male female differences. And trans deserve respect in our society.

-1

Amy

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Do you respect people who claim a different race? If not, why not?

I’m mixed-race and my family is a spectrum of colors and features.

Race in a person is often a spectrum, biological sex is not. In humans, sex is dimorphic, immutable and determined at conception.

The female of humankind. throughout the world throughout history and still today, is treated as “less than” a male, including legally.

I don’t respect appropriators, so I don’t respect men who are appropriating women’s oppression, women’s sports and women’s locker rooms, no matter how they feel in their heads.

And I don’t respect organizations like the NCAA and US Swimming, the Ivy Leagues, the media, that attempt to justify the absolute, institutionalized misogyny that is gender activism.

-1

Tom

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Are all transwomen like Lia Thomas? Just like all male swimmers are like Michael Phelps?

-1

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Anonymous, apparently they don’t deserve equality though.

Jason

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

…

Last edited 2 years ago by Jason

SwimMomsforFairness

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Just curious – how is it fair?

-1

A H

2 years ago

Reply to SwimMomsforFairness

It’s not, especially when we start talking about 13 year olds who are elite swimmers needing to prove 36 months of HRT…uhmmm…they don’t always start that young or might only have a few months of trans healthcare.

Additionally, from what I understand the type of screening that needs to be used to prove hormone levels is different than the standard way, which is not always covered by insurance and too expensive for some to pay out of pocket.

Essentially, they’re saying “we’re pretending to be not transphobic and thus saying that we’re fair for not being totally transphobic, we’re just making you jump through complicated hoops that don’t make sense to a rational person.” Especially since the kerfuffle around trans women in athletics always hits a peak when a transwoman wins and then it totally disappears once she loses…and then non of these transphobes are ever willing to say “we were wrong and it wasn’t really a life or death situation.”

Ken

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

If archaeologists discovered Lia’s body 200 years from now, they would be able to determine from the study of those bones that the body was a male!

Simmsy266

2 years ago

Reply to Ken

No such thing as transphobic. Made up word used by idiots to silence opinions they don’t like. You can take all the hormone suppressants you like and you can mutilate your body as much as you want but you can’t change your gender. The world will not play let’s pretend no matter how much you jump up and down. People with gender dysphoria need treatment not being led along in their delusion

Tom

2 years ago

Reply to Ken

Are all transwomen like Lia Thomas? Just like all male swimmers are like Michael Phelps?

-1

Anti-racist

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Where was all this upset when girls joined boys teams? What a bunch of hypocrites. Let boys on girls teams, and girls on boys teams and mind your own business.

-2

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Anti-racist

Spoken like a true gender neutral one

Jason

2 years ago

Reply to Anti-racist

Think about your question for a minute here. This whole issue is about trans-women wanting to compete as women while having a biological advantage being that they were born male. The debate isn’t about people being transgender. Trans-men wanting to join a men’s sports team means they will have a very hard time competing as they enter in with a biological disadvantage being female by birth. Do you understand now?

Hue

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Stop calling this dude “her”. HE’S A MAN!

-1

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Seth you just proved you’re female-phobic.

-1

Paulette SLATER

2 years ago

Reply to KW

I just plain think it is wrong. He was born a male and should no be allowed to compete with females. It doesn’t matter how much testosterone surpression is done, he is still a male, with the ad advantages of a male. Unfortunately his teammates can’t speak up for fear of losing their scholarships. Think on this how many have daughters and want a transgender male who still dates women changing in the same room as their daughters.

-1

Jason

2 years ago

Reply to Paulette SLATER

You are so right Paulette. Testosterone is only part of what gives males an advantage over females. Testosterone suppression can’t undo all that was done during puberty.

John Vogel

2 years ago

Reply to KW

You just proved your an idiot

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to KW

I did? Thanks for judging me without knowing me.

Mom

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Misogyny is misogyny. Transphobia is a slur against women that believe in objective reality.

-1

Allison

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

It’s pity not phobia. Biology determines sex. Interestingly, women who claim to be men aren’t overwhelmingly clammoring to get on men’s teams. Even the Yale swimmer who supposedly beat Thomas didn’t want to compete against the men. That’s probably how this will resolve so that there is a category for those who don’t accept their biological reality. They will start lawsuits for an equitable chance to win as males. That will mean men will have to be handicapped in some way.

Francois Pineau

2 years ago

Reply to Allison

Why don’t you want to ban 7-foot athletes from pro basketball ? They have an enormous genetic advantage, right ?

A H

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

100% And for the head editor to be the one adding to the transphobia is disgusting. This person needs to learn about transgender health care and what it means rather than having all this biased emotion take over. And the comments around “biological females” even though no one seems to care about women athletes when it comes to actual issues women face. They only use us cisgender women when they need to be extra transphobic. So disgusting.

"Karen"

2 years ago

Reply to A H

“Transgender health care” = encouraging kids too young to drive, vote, join the army – to hack off their breasts or testicles and take puberty blockers that prevent their bodies from maturing.

Then cross-sex hormones, which leave the kids sterile, at risk of premature strokes, heart attacks, blood clots, and incapable of sexual pleasure – but on the plus side these kids are now very profitable, lifelong medical experiments – you mean that kind of “transgender health care”?

You must, because that’s pretty much the “transgender healthcare” given to kids sucked into the Cult of Genderology.

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to A H

Hear, hear!

Kenny

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Transphobia is good thing if it means protecting real women who are the vessels of life on earth for all of humanity. Everyone should embrace the word specially since trans community uses that word as its Only defense to control and gaslight people who speak the truth.

-1

Anca Feuer

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Listen, moron it’s about physical development and doesn’t have anything to do with transfobia.

-1

Sally

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

If trans women have no biological advantage over cis women like many people claiming transphobia are stating, then they will be allowed to compete.

Shi

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Being pro cisfemale is not transphobic. Can you imagine women’s sports where trans athelites competed with their male body advantages? A born female would never win again and it’s been a battle to get equal funding and practice time for girls. I have a teenage daughter that will most likely play a college sport but the boys team will always play better compared to the girls team. I have teenage sons as well.

-2

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Seth, I don’t like you.

-2

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Misogyny is Misogyny.

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Misogyny is misogyny. Stop hating women.

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

Anonymous, I don’t care.

Mark Ruscie

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Y chromosomes are Y chromosomes.

-1

Mark Ruscoe

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

Y chromosomes are Y chromosomes.

-1

"KAREN"

2 years ago

If basic human & civil rights for women, such as the right to fair sports competition, are “transphobic” what does that say about the increasingly outrageous demands of the Gender Lobby?

It started with these men who claim to be women saying, “We just wanna pee…” to now taking over women’s sports and women’s positions.

Men claiming to be women are now occupying women’s bathrooms, locker rooms, nursing home rooms and prison cells.

These incredibly brave young women swimmers are taking a stand for every woman every where. You go, ladies! The (sane) world is behind you.

-1

Swimmer

2 years ago

Reply to "KAREN"

Its not trasngender people you are afraid of it is men posing as women…

Alfred

2 years ago

Reply to Swimmer

Same difference.

-1

Sunny

2 years ago

Reply to "KAREN"

Born women should race against born women…. Transgenders should race against transgenders… trans should NOT be taking born women scholarships and records…..
transgenders should be in their own category racing against other transgenders…. Leave us born Delano’s, our scholarships and our records alone!!!!
Start a new revision and gave the transgenders have their OWN scholarships and records ….. leave us born females alone

Jody

2 years ago

Reply to Sunny

Agree.

Bobby Simmons

2 years ago

Reply to Sunny

This situation seems to be woke gone off the deep end. If you were born with a Dick, you are not a chick.

Shady

2 years ago

Reply to Sunny

If transgenders want to race, they can race with the boys/men regardless of if they are trans men or trans women. Just make the boys/men become “open” category and keep the girls/women as true biological females that identify as females.

Doing that would give everyone a chance to compete which seems to be what the trans community wants. Trans men and women may not win consistently (if at all) in the open category but to that I say they can “try harder or practice more” as this seems to be the argument brought forth by the pro trans community towards biological females that say having a trans woman compete against them is unfair.

Cindy

2 years ago

Reply to Sunny

???

DAn

2 years ago

Reply to "KAREN"

Well said

Swimmer

2 years ago

Scathing example of lack of professionalism from you guys… do better. And from your editor in chief of all people!? Sheesh. Bad look for Swimming World. Id shut up instead of trying to die on this hill

Alfred

2 years ago

Reply to Swimmer

“Id shut up instead of trying to die on this hill”

HMMM. Sounds like a threat. Is this really about equality for trans people or is it about not disagreeing with them and letting them have whatever they want, or else?
It’s not unprofessional to ask valid questions and take a stand on standards for competition, is it? Unless it’s not in favor of your POV, I see.

-1

Thinking liberal swim mom

2 years ago

Reply to Swimmer

Please don’t shut up. Swimming world spoke when the mainstream media kept quiet. The failure of so-called “women’s rights” organizations to protect women’s sports is shameful. I’m a liberal woman and won’t be donating to some of these organizations next year. That’s not because I’m transphobic but because these organizations are advancing a policy that is nonsensical and unfair to cis women. If it’s your gender identity that dictates what divisions you should swim in, then why is it that trans men compete in women’s sports? Answer: They can’t compete against the men due to biological differences. But when trans women compete in women’s sports “all good and biological differences don’t matter. . . just swim faster.” Then, they pivot to my personal favorite . . . “its just a few people.” So if it’s just a few people, should we agree to the cap per conference? per team? If not, this argument is meaningless. Stupid, irrational thinking is behind this advocacy. Come up with something that responds to the science and is logical and I’m willing to listen.

-1

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Swimmer

Yep.

2 years ago

Cheering on USA SWIMMING for half-heartedly protecting elite athletes ignores the fact that in order to become an elite athlete one must start from scratch.

My female (and Lia Thomas will never be a female – his biology prevents it) teammates and I started swimming when we were very young.

Would we have spent endless hours staring at the bottom of a pool, running track, lifting weights – GIVING UP A HUGE PORTION OF OUR CHILDHOODS, had we known that at 15 some dude/dudes would claim to be women and take all our chances for medals and scholarships away?

Probably not.

So again, USA SWIMMING, like the NCAA, took the coward’s way out.

Bottom line:
No man can ever prove that they are a woman because they are not.

Rather than pander to the delusions of men – why are we even having this nonsensical discussion?!?!? – we need to live in the real world and allow women the same fair sporting opportunities that men take as their due.

-1

Good Reason

2 years ago

Excellent commentary. Fair is fair, and USA Swimming is to be commended for making this decision. The adults have finally entered the room.

Mom

2 years ago

Reply to Good Reason

What about the non-elite athletes? Is it ever fair for a man to push a woman out simply because he can?

Fair Game

2 years ago

Will men be open enough to accept transwomen to continue their sports competition in MEN’s events , but dress in women’s suit? If it is all about gender identify, will it be just fine as long as all guys to accept there are people in their lanes with women’s suit and identity?

Bojobo

2 years ago

Swimmers, parents, officials can ask for separate categories in the name of equity and science. Science is the study of natural phenomena. Biology is science. It’s not a matter of being -phobic, but what makes sense as based in facts.
It doesn’t need to divide people nor increase hatred of those who differ.

Linda

2 years ago

Seth, how is it transfer obok to want to look closely at the fairness of born males competing with born females. Certainly anyone can appreciate the differences between males and females. If we were all the same no one would want to transgender. Trying to create a Level Playing Field is not transphobic. A transgender person is entitled to respect and can compete not in Elite swimming competitions. Certainly you can see the problem and the concern that women’s sports will be wiped out

James D. Holds

2 years ago

While I take the same stance as Mr Lohn on this issue, he is downplaying the fact that ALL governing bodies have kicked this ball down the road for far too long. USA Swimming, to their credit did finally do something, but only after action became unavoidable. Further, if the policy that FINA drafts is different from that of USAS, they will be compelled to change their policy to that which FINA finalizes. I support USAS wholeheartedly, and am happy to see them finally act in some way, but let’s not give them too much credit on this; they acted not proactively, but out of necessity.

Kmo

2 years ago

Wouldn’t it be fair to everyone to allow transgender to race with whatever gender they were born? It seems Lia should be able to swim with the men not the women because of her biological advantages from being born make at birth.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Kmo

Lia was on the men’s swim team where does was ranked #462 aka mediocre at best. “She” didn’t become an elite swimmer until she decided that she is now female.

Cindy

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

???

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Kmo

Lia was on the men’s swim team where was ranked #462 aka mediocre at best. “She” didn’t become an elite swimmer until she decided that she is now female.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Reply to Kmo

Lia was on the men’s swim team where she was ranked #462 aka mediocre at best. “She” didn’t become an elite swimmer until she decided that she is now female.

Steve

2 years ago

Reply to Kmo

Her he rankings was like four hundred something for men’s competition and number one rank as women competition

Swimgrrl

2 years ago

Reply to Kmo

@KM0

The problem with allowing trans athletes to compete with their biological sex is one of hormones.
A trans man swimming with females would typically be on high dosages of testosterone. Basically it’s legalized doping.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Well have a trangenger event…You can support(watch) it or not.

Ken

2 years ago

Reply to Anonymous

No, stop the nonsense. No transgender pandering. Males compete with males, period. This whole debate is based on a made up psychological ideology. Science of sex is not up for debate. Despite what gender you claim to be you will always be male or female. Billions of cells in your body have either x or y chromosomes. As far as I know there are no therapies to change that.

Craig

2 years ago

How is deferring to another governing body, “cowering in the corner?” That is a hard spin. Why not congratulate the two bodies for avoiding a confrontational standoff? Sad how our media creates conflict where there is none. So hateful.

Allison

2 years ago

@Seth especially. If tranphobia is the issue then why aren’t women who seek to change their sex parts angling to compete with men ? Because they know they’ll lose. I don’t usually use any word like trans because transitioning to another sex is impossible. Changing you sex organs doesn’t change your sex just like colouring your hair only changes the appearance. Your real hair is still the same color. I also refuse to call Lia a she. He’s a he. If he wants to identify as a women he can but I don’t have to go along with it.

SETH

2 years ago

Reply to Allison

Allison, if you look up “transphobic” in the dictionary, you will find your name and the above post.

Karen

2 years ago

Reply to SETH

She should be proud to be transphobic. It basically means Common Sense and speaking truth. That’s what transphobia is.

Anonymous

2 years ago

How many women are now competing against men after changing their sexual orientation that are dominating the sports that they are engage within.
I’m just curious not taking sides

Anonymous

2 years ago

Hey Seth, get a grip. It’s not about transphobia. It’s about biology. The human body and differences between men and women after they go through puberty. Women’s sports were started to give women a chance to fairly and safely compete. This is where people need to address fairness and create an open category to give transgender people a place to fairly compete. But just telling ciswomen oh well deal with it isn’t the answer. Transgender women who went through puberty as a male have an advantage over a cis woman because of biology. Do a little reading. The info is all out there. So is the info about time differences between men and women.

Kimberly

2 years ago

Trans should swim with fellow trans…only.
I would definitely watch and follow the category.

Dave Henderson

2 years ago

I support all transgender men – born female – who wish to compete against men.

David Balnaves

2 years ago

The NJCAA champs from Florida would kick his backside. The Ivey league is a joke in swimming. He needs to compete against men since that’s what he is. Had i felt feminine when I was younger i could have won big time.

Levine Stagnity

2 years ago

For anyone left on the fence, though, I have a question: Would you prefer to base your opinions on what all the top medical experts, and empirical evidence, say? Or would you rather side with the kind of folks who comment on YouTube?
Or – take note of such bias propagated by the author of this article?

Swimgrrl

2 years ago

Reply to Levine Stagnity

@Levine Stagnity

“Top medical experts” = Doctors who are in the pockets of big pharma and their hormone racket.

You don’t need to be a “top medical expert” to realize that there are huge differences physiologically between men and women, and someone who’s born with a male body has an automatic advantage over women.

You want empirical evidence? How about the fact that virtually all sports are divided by biological sex, and the average and record times for men are always faster than for women?

Kem

2 years ago

Reply to Levine Stagnity

I prefer to not take any opinions from anyone. I like plain Ole common sense, and my 8th grade biology textbook.

Zac wright

2 years ago

you’d think people in this “sport” wouldn’t be this transphobic but oh well glad I’m out of it if these are the views old heads have.

2 years ago

Absurdity has cast it’s veil over so many. Women give birth to babies, men are physically differ than women. These are biological FACTS that will different than women. How is this even a conversation? How idiotic have humans let themselves become that we are even having this debate. No matter how much attention a human wants, or what mental disorder they suffer from, facts will always be facts. There is no such word as transphobia, but there is such thing as a humans chopping their body apart, injecting chemicals to disobey the laws of nature, and then screaming that the world turn upside down and change for their selfish desires. Go ahead and identify as a watermelon, or a grizzly bear, but keep your delusions out of clear common sense and stop whining; make your own sports teams and go have fun together, compete against each other, leave real men and women out of your fantasy. You are harming so much more than yourself. The attention seeking drama is tiresome and as transparent as your mirage.

2 years ago

Absurdity has cast it’s veil over so many. Women give birth to babies, men are physically different than women. These are biological FACTS that will different than women. How is this even a conversation? How idiotic have humans let themselves become that we are even having this debate. No matter how much attention a human wants, or what mental disorder they suffer from, facts will always be facts. There is no such word as transphobia, but there is such thing as a humans chopping their body apart, injecting chemicals to disobey the laws of nature, and then screaming that the world turn upside down and change for their selfish desires. Go ahead and identify as a watermelon, or a grizzly bear, but keep your delusions out of clear common sense and stop whining; make your own sports teams and go have fun together, compete against each other, leave real men and women out of your fantasy. You are harming so much more than yourself. The attention seeking drama is tiresome and as transparent as your mirage.

Anne

2 years ago

Yes to the comment above by MC, no amount of surgery can change biological facts. Fake is fake. And yes to the comment about an archaeologist finding the bones of these humans who have chopped body parts off and sewn on synthetic ones, in 200 years the archaeologists will know the facts, Will Thomas -a man who took drugs to pretend help in his pretending to be seen as woman and changed his name to Lia- will be absolutely identified *factually* AS A MAN from HIS bones. Nothing, nothing nothing nothing will ever change that. Artificial will always be artificial, and natural will always be natural.

John

2 years ago

Ignoring how ‘phobia’, meaning ‘fear’, came to mean ‘hate’, why does everyone want black and white with no inbetween? If you don’t worship or adore something these days you are accused of ‘hating’ it. The phrase ‘hate crime’ puts someone who has been ‘offended’ in the same category as Jews at Auschwitz. Today in the UK some parents are rightly angry their sons – all scouts – were asked to ‘define their gender.’ Nonsense. There are plenty of medical people who cannot say what they want any more. Look at brave words from the likes of Dr. Michelle Cretella on You Tube. If there are names for wanting to remove one’s limbs etc (a recognised mental disorder – forgotten the name) why is it different for wanting to remove genitals? I have 100% support and sympathy for anyone suffering from a mental disorder but in this case we cannot call it that. It’s not about the dress they say, because it’s not transvestitism. Okay. It’s not about sexuality. (And being on the gay scene in the 80s/90s they were quite vehement about not being included in the LGB category. I do think it is insulting too when some famous trans people have transitioned and then started saying they want a date with blah blah which would mean they have changed their sexuality just like that.) Okay. So what is it about? Not once have I heard anyone say what this ‘I feel like a woman / man thing is. Not once. (How would they know?!) I will gladly do a 180 degree U turn if they enlighten me! I just think if you start saying ‘I’m a woman inside because I like / prefer / want…. whatever’ the very same people defending their rights will shout you down because ‘you can’t say women like /prefer/want that… it’s gender stereotyping!’ You just can’t win.

Anonymous

2 years ago

Men who identify as female, it is in there mind only and not there body

Ken

2 years ago

I prefer to not take any opinions from anyone. I like plain Ole common sense, and my 8th grade biology textbook.

Ken

2 years ago

1994 I graduated college
I ran track and cross country.
400m=50.08
800m=1:55.3
1500m=4:03
Those times were not good enough to place me in the MENS conference championship.

1994 US Women’s Track and Field results
Gold Medal
400m=50.77
800m=2:00.4
1500=4:07.7

There should not even be a debate on this.
All of you faux females should be ashamed of yourselves for trying to take away achievements from real women in sports.

Brian

2 years ago

I say let him Swim. Let him Swim in the Mens Division where he belongs. He doesn’t have any right to Swim against Females. It’s called Cheating!

Stuart

2 years ago

This whole issue is off the rails. Go back to the beginning and ask why should males – whatever they call themselves – be allowed to compete against women? They should not. Full stop. This is not complex. No matter how many drugs men take or how many body parts they add or subtract they will never be women.

Dana M

2 years ago

How about setting up male, female, transgender (third gender) groups for such sports? Swimming, running events might need this. All get to compete and all respected and all rewarded.

Sam

2 years ago

1. After reading through all of the comments it seems to me that the short term solution is to have co-ed teams. Meaning that boys and girls compete for the spots on team sports. No more boys teams and no more girls teams. This way everyone is included.
My guess is that there will be very few girls on these teams where size and strength matter most!
2. Girls just keep ondoing the best you can do to get the best scholarship to a great school that you can get for a great education! Isn’t that the point in the end? Free or reduced tuition?
3. We live in litigious times! The schools and sports organizations will say and do what they feel is politically correct to protect themselves from lawsuits!
4. Is it my imagination or does the current atmosphere feel like entitlement? Me first atyitude! What ever happened to what is best for our team ?
5. It may take years for this situation to self correct!