University of Arizona Swimmers Write Letter to NCAA on Lia Thomas
Following last week’s NCAA Women’s Championships, when Penn swimmer Lia Thomas captured the NCAA title in the 500 freestyle and swam in two other championship finals, members of the swimming community continue to issue public statements on the controversial presence of Thomas, a transgender female, at the women’s meet. The latest comments come from a group of University of Arizona swimmers that includes longtime head coach and USA Swimming national team director Frank Busch and 2008 Olympian Lacey Nymeyer, plus others from the Wildcats’ 2008 national championship group.
The letter, sent this week to the NCAA Board of Governors, expressed significant questions of the fairness of Thomas participating. The letter says that the collegiate governing body “has successfully failed everyone” by allowing Thomas to compete against cisgender women while trying to “appease everyone.” The letter states that Thomas “catapulted a team to a top-20 program in the country after failing to score a single point last year,” although it’s worth noting that the Ivy League and Penn cancelled all athletics last year and thus had no swimmers in the running to qualify for NCAAs.
The letter goes on to contrast Thomas’ situation with that of Iszac Henig, a transgender male who remains eligible for women’s competition and swam alongside Thomas in the 100 freestyle final last week. The letter concludes with an offer to help the NCAA in discussing “potential steps it can implement to create new solutions for the expanding athletic family.”
Read the full letter from Arizona swimmers below:
March 24, 2022
Dear NCAA Board of Governors,
Do we have a voice?
It’s hard to express the anguish the women’s swim community has experienced this past week watching the 2022 NCAA Swim & Dive Championships. On one hand, we feel we are witnessing irrevocable damage to a sport that has transformed our own identities for the better. On the other, we have reconnected with each other in sisterhood after many busy years living our lives beyond the water’s edge. We are grateful for the many women who have stood up to publicly speak up in protest of your policies including UT’s swim alumni who penned a thoughtful letter to their Athletic Director and inspired us to write from the University of Arizona alumni perspective. We have collected some of our own thoughts on paper to plead to swimming leadership at every level to take immediate action to protect our women athletes.
In 2008, USA Swimming chief Chuck Wielgus was asked to comment on a “culture of fair play” regarding a female swimmer who had tested positive for a banned anabolic agent called Clenbuterol. He claimed at the time “within the culture of swimming, if you’re doing something you shouldn’t be doing, we want to catch you and throw you out of the sport. In other sports, it’s about excuses and justifications and being innocent until you’re proven guilty.” According to the USADA website, Clenbuterol is prohibited in sport because it “promotes muscle growth through anabolic properties.” The Mayo Clinic reports “the main anabolic steroid hormone produced by the body is testosterone” and that it “has anabolic effects promoting muscle building.” In a little over a decade, USA Swimming, the leading organization of swimming in the world has surrendered its firm stance on fair play. This has encouraged other organizations such as the NCAA to make accommodations for biological men who have had the benefits of testosterone throughout natural development and beyond.
According to Duke’s Center for Sports Law and Policy, “there is an average 10-12% performance gap between elite males and elite females” in sport. What advantage does testosterone have for natural born men in swimming specifically? This year in the 500 freestyle the men’s A standard qualifying time is 4:11.62. The women’s A standard qualifying time was 4:35.76. That is a difference of 24.14 seconds. To put that into perspective, the male swimmer in the last seed going into the meet would be two full laps ahead of his female counterpart in this event. This one example alone demonstrates the advantages a biologically male swimmer has over a female. Physiological advantages exist.
Looking back on another moment in swim history, in 2010 FINA banned the use of high tech performance swim suits as the “shiny suit era” saw “records falling at an alarming rate” due to a competitive advantage given to swimmers who had the suits available to them. This year at the fastest short course swim meet in the world, the body inside the suit is what raises cause for concern.
The decisions of the NCAA this year hoped to appease everyone by allowing Lia Thomas to compete directly with women. Instead, the NCAA has successfully failed everyone. A target was placed on the back of a trans athlete subjecting this person to devastating national outcry and humiliation. This swimmer’s lone points for Penn this March catapulted a team to a top-20 program in the country after failing to score a single point last year. Additionally, women athletes competing in the meet were forced to swim in unfair direct competition therefore eliminating all integrity of the entire championship meet.
We are celebrating the 50th anniversary of Title IX this year. From the birth of the NCAA in 1906 until 1972, women had to fight to earn the law that provided equal opportunities for women in sports. It took a male to female transgender person one year to take the women’s swimming national championship title. This is not equality. Women’s standings, titles, records, and scholarships are suddenly at risk again. Opening the door to allowing natural born men to acquire precious, life altering financial aid packages often split up between multiple women per team defeats the very essence of the flagship legislation we are ironically celebrating this very year.
Female to male transgender athletes do not have the same opportunities as their male to female counterparts. They are heavily disadvantaged when it comes to earning a spot on the team they identify due to strength and speed differences between gender categories. This was represented this year in the 100 freestyle by Yale’s Iszac Henig, a transgender male competing at the women’s championship. This swimmer placed fifth in the event. Henig’s time of 47.52 earned the swimmer an All-American award and added 13.5 points to Yale’s team score. Had Henig chosen to swim at the men’s competition however, the same time would have failed to even reach the men’s A qualifying time of 41.71 by almost six seconds dashing the whisper of a chance this swimmer would even step up to the block.
There were many options the NCAA could have implemented to create a fair environment for women competitors. A trans athlete could compete in the meet that aligns with birth gender such as Henig did. At the championship level, there are 10 lanes available in the pool while only 8 swimmers compete per heat. Therefore, a trans athlete could have been added to any finals heat in addition to the 16 women who qualified without pushing any of the deserving women out of the finals such as VT’s Reka Gyorgy , who personally spoke out about the inequality she was subjected to being shut out of the finals. Trans specific heats with separate awards categories and scoring was another alternative. The NCAA could have implemented the more stringent USA Swimming guidelines at the very least. Moving forward, trans swim meets could be organized and built into a new category of athletic competition similar to the Paralympic or Special Olympic platforms to continue to widen the umbrella of inclusion in athletics.
We are writing this letter to the NCAA who has a President at the helm responsible for cutting both the University of Washington’s swimming programs in 2009. Mr. Emmert stood firmly by his decisions as “the right ones for us.” The NCAA Board of Governors is predominantly men. Of the 65 Athletic Directors in the Power 5, only 5 are women. At the University of Arizona, our Athletics Director, Associate AD for Diversity, and Senior Women’s Advocate have remained silent on this issue unfolding over the course of this entire season. These revelations and disparities alarm us when it seems there was no urgency in skillfully and educationally addressing how the scientific and biologic differences may impact women’s competitions. Do we have a voice? The people responsible for protecting women’s swimming should swiftly rectify the guidelines. The women from the University of Arizona will not quietly stand down while our victories and accomplishments float away.
We are eager and willing to discuss directly with the NCAA potential steps it can implement to create new solutions for the expanding athletic family. Please contact us with your next steps towards a fairer future.
Respectfully,
The Women of Arizona Swimming & Diving
info@womenfins.comMarshi Smith (02-06) NCAA Champion
Frank Busch 6-Time NCAA Coach of the Year for the University of Arizona
(11-17) USA Swimming National Team Director2008 National Championship Team Members:
Lacey Nymeyer-John (04-08) NCAA Woman of the Year, NCAA Champion, Olympic Medalist
Brandy Collins Maben (04-08) Team Captain
Lindsey Kelly (05-09) NCAA All-American
Taylor Baughman (05-09) NCAA All-American, Team Captain
Caroline Rollins (05-09) Team Manager
Lara Jackson (06-09) NCAA Champion, American Record Holder
Annie Chandler (06-10) NCAA Woman of the Year Finalist
Caitlin Iversen (06-10) NCAA All-American
Carley Beaudreau (06-10) NCAA All-American
Dana Christ (07-11) NCAA All-American
Susana Starbuck (07-11) Team CaptainTrina Jackson Falca (96-00) Olympic Gold Medalist, NCAA Champion
Lindsey Farella (97-02) NCAA Champion, Team Captain
Julie Manitt Andrew (99-03) NCAA All-American
Jenna Gresdal Davis (02-06) Olympian, NCAA Champion
Lisa Pursley Ebeling (02-06) NCAA All-American, Current Head Coach UNC
Katie Willis (02-06) NCAA All-American
Ryann Hackett (02-06) NCAA All-American Honorable Mention
Danielle Erickson (05-06) Big-12 Conference Finalist (Nebraska)
Emily Strouse (03-07) Olympic Trial Qualifier, Pac-10 Team Champion
Kathryn Elofson (03-07) Pac-10 Champion
Whitney Myers (03-07) NCAA Woman of the Year, 5x NCAA Champion
Julie Stupp (08-09) NCAA Runner up, 2x Team Champion (Auburn)
Grace Kittle (07-12) NCAA All-American
Andrea Smith (08-13) Team Manager
Monica Refsnyder (09-13) NCAA All-American, American Record Holder
Ellyn Baumgardner (09-13) NCAA All-American, Team Captain
Aubrey Peacock (10-12) NCAA All-American
Megan Lafferty (12-13) American Record Holder, Pac-12 Champion
Alana Pazevic (12-14) NCAA All-American, Pac-12 Champion
Elizabeth Pepper (13-15) NCAA All-American
Bonnie Brandon (12-16) NCAA All-American
Emma Schoettmer (12-16) NCAA All-American
Alexandra Martelle (14-18) Pac-12 Finalist
Mackenzie Rumrill (15-19) NCAA Woman of the Year Nominee, NCAA All-American
Mallory Korenwinder (16-20) NCAA All-AmericanDennis Pursley (89-03) USA Swimming Team Director
5x Olympic Coach, ASCA Hall of Fame Inductee
Well done! I hope we women, athletes and non-athletes receive an answer from NCAA
Keep these freaks out of sports
“Keep these freaks out of sports,” wow…. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The real shame belongs on those who allow a male to not only compete against females, but allowed that male to parade around naked in the ladies locker room and made it obvious he is attracted to women. Thomas is no hero. Quite the opposite actually
You are 100% correct . It is even more sick than being a sexual deviant that we permit the government to punish us who know better than to support this in any way …and this is not at all a hateful statement to or about these conflicted individuals but if they have a conscience it should be directed toward God’s will. We are all sinners without exception….but we should never be required to embrace or support this deviant behavior….never ….hate the sin not the sinner .
GLAD YOU HAVE STARTED THE CONVERSATION AT THE BEGINNING… GODS GIFT OF LIFE…MALE AND FEMALE GENDER ONLY. WE ARE ALL SINNERS. WE DON’T NEED A ATHLETIC BODY TO PROMOTE SIN.
WE CAN HAVE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE FAIRLY WITHOUT FIGHTING ONE ANOTHER. WE JUST NEED EVERYONES INPUT TO SOLVE THIS SITUATION.
This is nothing but a slap in women’s faces… you ever think about what women go through when giving birth… we are not the same…. It’s no place for a man to allowed in any sports women play… that’s why it’s 2 bodies one for us men and one for women… whoever is pushing this agenda need to stop it..:
Anger and demand for fairness will not work. Try again.
The alternative?
Simple. Separate category for transgender athletes
In my opinion this is the only fair solution to this problem. Allowing a man to compete against women in a woman’s sport it’s not fair in the least. They may as well not have had them swim meet at all and just handed him the trophy and title, without humiliating all the females who have trained for so long and so hard for this meet.
Yes!! Please stop pushing this agenda…and stop persecuting ppl who are not ok with this….this is not what “fairness” looks like
I definitely agree. I feel like it’s a kind of “blackface” to say a man is a woman, but they don’t have the same set-up as a woman. They need their own category. I respect that they “feel” like a woman inside, but the fact is they are not women. No overies, fallopian tubes, no uterus, none of that stuff that complicates and enhances the life of a woman.
they don’t have the same set-up as a woman. They need their own category. I respect that they “feel” like a woman inside, but the fact is they are not women. No overies, fallopian tubes, no uterus, none of that stuff that complicates and enhances the life of a woman.
Do your research. However, it would be fair I believe to have “Gender Olympics”.
TRANS, GAY, …….
No, I am not ok with this movement renaming everything and providing a litmus test for what is “fair” because every subsequent group adds on to it. When will the catering to the militant side of these groups stop? Ever wonder why there isn’t more talk about Lia’s girlfriend and what she does for trans advocacy? This was a 100 political. It is not their right to do so. Mens and women’s Olympics has to remain. I’d suggest a trans Olympics separate if they want but there shouldn’t be a different category for every group that comes after…
So to be a woman you have to have all those things? Wow you fail at science and just said all born females without those due to birth defects or people that have had those parts removed to survive are not women. Many women are born without uterus’s and tubes every year. You suck at biological science and all types of science
no where near blackface you f…g idiot
Of course it is. It’s exactly the same dismissal.
Race and gender are different things. This is nothing like blackface, thanks for showing you are racist, sexist and homophobic.
So women who can’t have children aren’t women?
Confused, has God ruled on this issue or is he still taking, “everyone’s imput”? How do I get his cell phone number?
Yes he did Adam then Eve it’s in the Bible no cellphone needed direct words
And the Bible was written by man. It’s no different than if 300 years from now we all get wiped out and somebody finds a Stephen King book and decides that’s their Bible and his word is law. In other words it’s freaking ridiculous to quote the Bible on anything
Wow Bill Busby! You should do some more research of the Bible against historical facts. I pray you figure it out before you die.
California Girl, I couldn’t
agree more! Thank you!!
You do realize that what allegedly happened in the Bible also happened in at least half a dozen other holy books, right? They’re mostly fairy tales.
And how much of the Bible have you read? Not one part of the Bible has been found to be historically incorrect. Try reading it before you share the opinions of others.
So, what you are saying is that the story about Easter and Jesus being dead and all, then Hello! Alive! is all…. historically accurate?
“Hello, my name is Bernie… I mean Jesus… I was dead, now I’m alive but I’m only hanging around for the weekend…”
This is untrue. There are parts of the Bible that were on e believed to be fact that have since been proven to be fable or misunderstood. The flooding of the entire earth and the age of the planet are just some examples. Flooding leaves behind geological evidence, of which there is none that support a global flooding, not to mention two of each species of animal can’t fit on an ark, also there are things in existence today that can be scientifically dated to be older than the proposed biblical age of the planet.
You are willfully wrong and that means you have violated a commandment about truth. Is God gonna get you?
PLEASE!
You must have been really busy reading at least six other holy texts to make such a claim. If so, the concurrence should not be dismissed and categorized as “fairy tales”.
The Bible we know was put together by a committee at the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century AD. Perfectly good Good Book but the left a lot out there on the cutting room table, too…?
California girl, did you know Jesus was a brown man?
And that is relevant to exactly what in this conversation?
But in all them pictures he’s white!
You are afraid of your God. Think about it.
the Bible is utter trash. used to conquer men
I thought you Californians were godless hippies
Spoken like a true clown!
Calling someone a clown means you had no real argument nor ideas and so resorted to cowardly behavior. Shame.
I agree with you on the Bible but common sense should be looked at here…If a tran woman wanted to be president, if they had the intelligence and the right politics I would support her..Some tran women have the soul of a woman and the brains of a woman but in this case…this is a swimming competition….this athlete still and will always have the body of man…. Unfortunate but you can’t go around this fact….
What is sad, that you do NOT hear about regarding any trans gender, male or female, is the damage they are doing to their bodies pumping hormones into a body not chemically set up to handle those hormones. Doctors even want women on the lowest strength birth control pills & then only till the age of 35. There are cardiac issues, BIG cancer issues, equally as large psychiatric issues, skeletal issues. I could go on for a long time (yes, I AM a doctor) but if you want to learn about it you won’t find much about these issues if you research transgender treatments. Go pick up a book on endocrinology. The number of wrestlers, male & female who died young from cardiac issues is quite high. Women who take large doses of androgens lose their hair, and have some pretty noticeable personality issues. Gender is on the level of DNA and we do not have the medical ability to change a man to a woman or vise versa. I see photos of this man who has been allowed to compete against women and it just immediately makes you feel this is so WRONG! Lea should renounce the win, she didn’t win! Didn’t they say that when he completed as a man he never won anything?
Wow, you must be a terrible doctor. I can’t imagine the damage you might do to a trans patient by denying their existence and their right to appropriate medical treatment like gender-affirming HRT.
The doctor said the drugs are not healthy. You then made a pivot because he may be right.
Your feelings about this don’t outweigh the science and years of data regarding use of these drugs. Gender affirming? Hrt is a bandaid for more deeply rooted issues.
God I hope I’d never have someone with those beliefs as my doctor, scary really.
I agree with you, ethical, legal even emotional and psychological equality doesn’t mean physical equality. We may, as men and women be equal in many ways, but physically we differ.
Bill, everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you believe in as little as 300 years, humanity will sink so low as to believe Stephen King has something worthwhile to offer then the outlook for humanity is bleak.
People are winning elections quoting Q conspiracies Men are allowed to claim they feel like a woman and are awarded with titles like woman of year and allowed to compete with women. You bare witness to all this in real time yet you think it’s not possible for humanity to sink to the depths of believing a Stephen King Novel as their Bible? At the rate we’re sinking I doubt it will take 300 years to get to that point.
Stephen King has written an incredible amount of amazing books. All of which are alot more than “worthwhile”
The bar is already touching the ground.
Apparently you’re not familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls. It’s ok, facts, and a complete disregard of truth and reality is the banner of this age. The ignorance of this generation, while not a surprise, still boggles the mind of my generation.
This is off topic, but I encourage you to read The Case for Christianity by CS Lewis and The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. For the unbeliever, these books point to intellectual empirical evidence for the faith. It’s too important a topic not to explore.
Kim, you do not need faith when you have empirical evidence. That you cannot see this quite obvious fact is sad.
You have no idea what empirical means.
Also, The Case For The Resurrection.
Christianity IS false… and yet is of immense importance: it is part of our culture, our history, its adherence try to sell us their myths, they vote, they are nearly all of our lawmakers and every president. Christian myths limit our ability to do science, and make our society prone to controlling the bodies of women and gay men. The profound damaged caused by iron-age mythology is horribly destructive and quite important, Mr. Lewis.
Lawmakers lie about religion all the time.
Always refer a book if you have no argument. Strobel and Lewis are not reliable sources of intellectual argument.
AMEN
Ever met someone who is intersex?
are they not God’s children? It’s really weird that you act like people aren’t born with both/unclear genetalia every day.
it’s more complicated than “Adam and Eve.” Why some Christians need to shrink God down small enough to fit him into Exodus, is something I’ll never understand.
the Bible is stories meant to help us understand how to live. Now some folks have to tell themselves stories to believe the Bible is exact. It was never ever meant to be.
Good question about intersex.
Intersex people are a small percentage of the population. Like 0.01% don’t use a genetic or developmental mistake to justify trans people. Its not the same. There is nothing wrong with trans people they were not born with developmental issues. And often Intersex people identify with the sex they are more closely aligned to
Your percentage is wrong intersex is about 1 to 2 people out of one hundred. 1.7% If they compete they have to take testosterone reducing therapy as well.
It’s still a very small percentage and still doesn’t equate to trans, but the additional information is appreciated.
It’s a lot lower than that. People with intersex characteristics are quite rare. About 1 in 1000. Maybe 1 in 500.
So trans is ok with you but not intersex? And your reasoning is number of people is not significant enough? Ouch!
If there is “nothing wrong” with trans people why do they demand such drastic medical treatment (such as risky surgery and drugs with severe side effects)?
This isn’t about intersexual people. This is about transgenders. Spacifecally, a natural born male who decides to live out the rest of his life as a female. This is about hormone levels and our own bodies natural ability to produce testosterone. Why is it ok for Caster Semenya, a natural born woman (I don’t like the term ‘sis’, as it implies that natural born women have some kind of ‘condition’), to be banned from competition due to high levels of hormones, but a BIOLOGICALLY born man can compete with BIOLOGICALLY born females? This is not ok.
I agree with your points about the bible would like to comment on your intersex position. It reads as if u are attempting to normalize anomaly. The default for humans and indeed all mammals is to have one sexual organ per male or female requiring one of each to reproduce. We don’t debate the fact that humans have ten fingers and ten toes, or two ears and two eyes, even though, occasionally humans are born with differing numbers of sensory organs, or sexual organs, or other organs. It doesn’t change the standard. These genetic differences serve no purpose for survival, they’re just scientific happenstance. We today are mixing our societal and cultural standards, which are not scientific, with what we know to be scientifically true and raising ethical questions we aren’t sure how to answer because we are trying to mix two things that don’t belong together. It’s really causing quite the stir isn’t it? ?
A repeating anomaly is normal. Duh.
The controversy gets lots of clicks and employs lots of “doctors”.
Unless God spoke directly to you, you are unable to tell faith from reality. I also have better books than Bible fairy tales.
Did He specify parts of the to
body? Amazing how we use the Bible ONLY when it fits our needs. Did the Bible tell us it is ok to hate each other, based on the color of our skin.
I believe when there are changes to the human body, we can come up with other categories to compete.
Keep in mind, girls can no longer play football. Etc. There can be a girl football league like basketball. The pay, should be equal in all sports.
Read your Bible. His numbers in there
It’s 666
Tony, your sarcasm is noted. However, 6 is man’s number. 666 is Satan’s number, imitating the Trinity of God. FYI, God’s number is 777.
Is God a He/Him?
How do you know?
Another lie. Your God has punishments for liars. Good luck.
Read Romans Chapter 1 then come back and we will talk.
Read about the scientific method and anything that explains the difference between faith and empirical. You keep wanting to prove faith in the physical world and are doomed until your God shows up on meet the press. Faith is fine but exists only in your mind.
No, read it to me
Mmmm sky daddy, anoint me with the holy fluids of your magic scepter! I want to taste the father, the son AND the holy spirt..at the same time!
If their god hates gay people so much, why did he make Jesus so hot??
“Skid” is a completely accurate name for you, you disgusting piece of trash.
The Bible is a fiction.
Where is your Christianity?
That’s Johnny Skidmarks to you, thank you very much
There is nothing in the Bible that says that he hates the gays or anyone. It does say that is a sinful way of life. Also it is not believed that Jesus was attractive, Jesus did not come to earth riding a big white horse with a gleaming sword he came as a man. You can look it up and see Bible verses describing him.
Where does it say it’s a sinful way to live?
Genesis 9:20-27
Genesis 19:1-11
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:26-27
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:10
Seven reasons for rejection of the Bible.
I will polish his gleaming sword for him
God didn’t make Jesus hot the European that imagined how he think he should look made him that way. Blonde hair with blue eyes born in the Middle East of Africa GTFOH.
But I seen them pictures with mah own eyes?
Actually the original translation made no mention of homosexuality, nor did the second or third translation, it wasn’t until a specific translation from German to English in the 1900s that “molesters of boys” was changed to homosexuals, probably because the church doing the translating we’re molesting boys and didn’t want to pen their own condemnation. You can obtain a version of the German martin Luther Bible translated from the Greek and Latin. Homosexual is nowhere in it.
I understand. I made that comment simply to rile the a$$hats using their religion to condemn a person for being different than them.
God, I love intelligent people.
You guys are way of topic. This isn’t about god. Everyone has their own beliefs this isn’t what this discussion is about.
It kind of is though. Many of the comments made right after this article was released brought religion into it as a way to condemn Ms. Thomas. No atheist would bring religion into a conversation about….well, anything.
But there are many on here quoting their religious views, are they off topic?
Stop with the cap locks, it doesn’t make your point any better and it makes you look like a Douchebag that can’t stop yelling about stuff he clearly doesn’t have a firm grasp on mentally speaking.
God is imaginary, my dude. Might as well discuss what Papa Smurf’s plan is for the world.
Trans is imaginary. Gay is a choice. As is all the other made up crap. I identify as a trillionaire.so the government and my community and all institutions should play along and make it happen.
@. Bruce…
Made up?… Imaginary?
WTF are you talking about?
No one chooses to destroy their life, lose friends, family, jobs and loved ones by choice. It’s definitely not for attention, because the majority treat Transgender as a outcast and freaks…No one wants that. No one asks for that. The suicide rate in those individuals are 40% higher than the rest of the population. Alcohol and drug abuse run wild, just to cope. I agree that there needs to be an equal playing field amongst transgender individuals, and it’s not equal at the moment. Until there is an acceptable solution, MtF athletes should not be allowed to participate in women’s athletic programs. Imaginary is the made up crap, you believe and spew about things you have no clue about.
YouTube “desistance”
“detransition” Many many personal statements.
It’s madness of the crowds, brought about by “affirming” ghouls.
Bruce’s big dingy is imaginary, because it’s a small dingy.
I’m starting to think that Jesus freaks and radical gender activists kinda deserve each other. All y’all innumerate, ignorant of science & mostly interested in proselytizing and/or being whiny little cry-bullies. This article is about the fundamental unfairness of a trans woman who had been entirely biologically male up through age 20 or 21 (?) & had only been on hormones for a year or so competing against women because the NCAA chickened out on adapting FINA standards. It wasn’t otherwise an indictment of Lia’s life choices.
SOMETIMES, gay is a choice. I definitely know some people who decided later on life as to live an alternative lifestyle. I also know some who knew right from the start. Either way, It’s not about who you choose to bed down with, as long as they are consenting adults. It is about biological fairness.
Fairness, yes. But choice? No. You do what you do.
When did you make your choice of sexual orientation? Was the choice difficult for you? Conflicting attractions of men and women make the choice difficult for you? Are you still angry about your choice?
I like tater tots
Yep
Transgenders should compete against transgender. Seriously, that is the only fair solution.
Total agree
thank you!!
Absolutely! I agree ? It’s like Michael Phelps deciding to be transgender and competing against women. or Usain Bolt in Track- Women sports is in real jeopardy!
A simple and obvious solution that should put an end to this whole manufactured controversy. The only glitch is whether there are enough transgenders to participate and justify setting up swimming competition events. Then, you would have to account for separate categories i.e. male-to-female and female-to-male.
Actually you could have an open to all groups as the best and a only born female group for best female.
I stopped taking you seriously when you mentioned god. Whose god? Yours? You know there are thousands right? Don’t use the bible to justify your hate…it’s not cute..
I believe in one God and his son Jesus Christ. I read the Holy Bible so take it or leave it. Personally? There is only ONE God that I worship. The definition of ignorance is speaking on a subject you have little or no knowledge about. Nice try rube.
I will happily contrast MY mythical sky father against yours! Zeus would take your wimpy sky father in minutes!
Best comment ever!! ?
That’s enough. Can we leave religion out if it and just stick to the conversation of how and who draws the line between men and women sports. Is it going to get to the point that we don’t even bother having competitive sports anymore because the lines will be so blurred that we just give everyone and award like childrens T-Ball so no one has hurt feelings and no one is offended. I have no answers but I do wonder what will happen in years to come when women just say forget it because the majority of the team is transgender. Will we have to divide into male and female transgender teams and biological male and female teams? Where does it start, where does it stop?
People can’t stop talking about God
Because with these rednecks that’s all they know and that’s all their ignorance will ever know. It’s easier to hide you’re head in the sand when you’re that ignorant
Hmmm so because I believe in God, that makes me a Redneck?? I thought the discussion, was in regards to transgender athletes competing in sports? As a former competitive swimmer, I agree that it is biologically wrong. Hopefully the NCAA, will see that allowing those athletes need to compete against each other. It’s wrong and unfair in everyway. So glad I love college football, Roll Tide!! Thanks, your local female wildland firefighter. God Bless??
amen!!
How dare you judge a trans person, you brother humper
Why so many ugly words in your post? Sad.
I see the anti God troll brigade is in eesid nice.
SMH ……..how old are you? Two? It’s amazing how we can start out on one topic and in mere minutes we’re on to another which doesn’t have any connection at all.
Eric, the god eating penguin gobbles them all up. Any argument used to disprove Eric’s existence also applies to any god invented.
Yeah, that G-d with a Jewish son, yet you’re ignorant enough not to follow his own religion!! ?
The Jewish son who created CHRISTianity.. Jewish belief was he was a prophet, not the son of God. Learn something new everyday, don’t ya.
Since you believe in God obviously you don’t learn anything new ever
We’re not talking about Jewish beliefs or Christianity. Its about a man competing against a women. Its ridiculous and disturbing. You clowns are so far gone in your self dilutions you don’t even know the difference between a woman and a man. Even this new SCOTUS pick by Papa Jim-Joe Crow doesn’t even know what a woman is by her own admission. This world is lost and gone. It needs to burn and restart without the brainless ones defending and man destroying women.
Get off the religion, people, this is not about about religion.
This is about fairness, and this issue is completely unfair to all women!
God doesn’t exist.surely your grown enough to not believe in Santa claus and other make believe things.
Hey Salinas, you need help. It’s not too late.
Why? Because he doesn’t believe in a mythical being with a beard sitting on a cloud judging us? I love when people show their ignorance and stupidity so thank you for that
Ignorance??? Look who’s talking here? You are so smart you are the supreme ding the know all that we should believe you and not the Bible? It’s called faith you gimp! You obviously know nothing. Someday you will call out for God. I wonder if he will answer?
Hmmm hopefully you don’t believe in Juan Diego. You still have time, before you perish. God is at your door nocking.
On the contrary – why when someone mentions God in a comment do you non believers crawl out of the woodwork hurling insults? Can’t live in a world where some people believe differently than you without insulting them? You people can’t handle people having a different view than you without going off on them and their beliefs in a nasty, derogatory manner. Grow up and be able to handle someone not being just like you. Sheesh, the world is full of people like you with such delicate sensibilities that they can’t handle their feathers being ruffled without coming unglued.
Ummm, wow. Did you read your comment before posting? You are one ignorant piece of work!!
Surely you’re grown enough to stay on topic right? I guess not. Try and follow along like most of us, okay? But then again, I’m sure you think it’s okay to have men compete against the ladies. You can’t stay on topic so maybe you like these kinds of things.
God does exist. It’s too bad you probably won’t be seeing him. And how grown do you have to be? Being grown is different from being smart.
Why are Christians such angry jerks all the time! Jesus wasn’t!
It is interesting that you put all these Christian people in the same box? I would say that Christ felt angry, he flipped tables over didn’t he? Back on topic though. I do not believe it is fair for trans genetic males who are now females to compete against females. I believe they should probably compete against males because there may not be enough trans gender athletes to compete against one another?? I am glad this team wrote a letter to the NCAA. Frankly, this is about fairness and it is not right now.
imagine being so weak that you don’t have a pantheon. we literally have an aspect devoted to destruction. Shiva will destroy your puny “Christ”.
I thought about getting a pantheon but i just couldn’t wrap my head around paying $1500+ for a bike that remains stationary.
Puny Christ? You’re a puny man. There is only one God and you will see him soon. Jesus is coming and this time he comes to punish people just like you! Your “Shiva” is a joke. You will see I promise you.
I feel like if god was real he would hate you. Incredibly annoying and rude. I thought god or whatever was supposed to preach love and acceptance, but you bible thumpers pick and choose whatever you want. I didn’t know jesus keyboard warriors existed, but here we are. Have a good night.
Jesus is such a trans
That’s as untrue as saying you’re intelligent.
So I see we are in agreement BANE
Ramen.
Obviously you have little or no knowledge about religion and are ignorant to all of the other gods and the people who worship them falsely, like you do your deity
Just another snowflake who can’t handle anyone who disagrees with her. If you had an ounce of intelligence you would understand that the biblical worldview helps us make sense of this situation because it defines gender so that we can draw fair lines in life. Without this guide we are left to the absurd definitions of gender that lead to this ridiculous situation of placing men alongside women in competition. Everyone sees the obvious lack of fair play. But when we bring the clarity of the Bible into the discussion you simply close your mind and walk away mumbling some stupidity like “Whose god? Yours? “ Yes, Mine! My book explains life better than your secular stupidity. So until you can bring a better solution to the game stop putting down that which you cannot understand. Oh, and please stop calling the ideas of those who disagree with you “hate”. It’s so immature. Maybe you can come up with something intelligent to say instead of throwing a tantrum….or may you are just a permanent third grader.
Very well said. I completely agree, even with the harsh judgements. There is clarity in extremely old concepts, such as Christianity. It reaches the climax of human thought and requires faith, it is absolutely beautiful. Anyone who easily dismisses, not just Christianity, but any complex concept, so easily is definitely worth your response.
Christianity is not complex. It only requires the abandonment of science, logic and reason. This has been proven to be a very simple task for white Christian nationalists in the United States.
No, but Christians have a complex
Quote of the day here
I’m black and I’m a Christian.
reminder to all that worship the false abrahamic gods; all your religions were created in the Kali Yuga, the age of strife, falsehood and despair. no religion created in the era of Kali Yuga can be true; all those prophets are rakshasa sent by evil powers to lead man astray.
your salvation and and end to being perpetually broken on the wheel of karma will only come through good deeds, not belief in any God.
How many?
How many “good deeds” does one have to do for salvation?
That’s part of the problem people only think that by doing something good they will receive something in return. It’s not about doing good deeds to receive something in return, its about helping those who are unable to help themselves, the strong protecting the weak. If people only do a favor or kindness to others only on the premise that they will be paid back in the after life it is not the same thing as doing a good deed solely because it’s the right thing to do. Back on topic, I definitely agree with the post earlier that points out a male who’s hit puberty and developed a males body, then decides to switch to trans and wants to compete in a women’s sport will be at a clear advantage, just as the trans powerlifter. When it comes down to it you can’t change DNA. It’s absurd they let this happen.
And you know this how? Did you read a book? Cuz I’ve read some books too does that mean I’ll be saved?
??????
Oh, come now. The survival guide of a nomadic sheep herding tribe, as modified by an itenerant preacher, and further cherry picked by a medieval council to strengthen the control of the populace makes for a comprehensive world view?
Well at least we are able to keep men men and woman……woman. You know, like Mother Nature intended since you are anti religion you hateful lib. Two can play your silly game!!
There is no Mother Nature in Judeo-Christian religions you pagan sinner
My goodness. Such evil words. I don’t think Christ talked this way to the people.
I agree with you but there are plenty of libs that do not support this travesty. And we are religious people that believe in Jesus Christ. You will not see our views on TV or in the news.
Good.
Are you kidding me? Every single Republican politician tries to ram God down people’s throats. Same with Fox News. You really can’t be that ignorant are you?
Oh my goodness. Bless your heart.
Does being non-religious and educated mean you are liberal? Because I am a Republican.
I don’t know, can a man be a woman?
Is your mother nature a God too? Careful you don’t trip over a commandment.
Wow aTrump supporter getting all riled up. And if you are a religious person, you are honesty the most easily duped moron here. Trump doesn’t give a damn about your religion he is the most soulless awful human being
Tell me exactly where I’m the Bible that it defines gender! Oh wait, it doesn’t! So keep worshiping that false idol that you do, breaking a commandment! Even if you believe Jesus was the messiah, he wasn’t g-d. So by worshiping his graven image on a cross, or the graven image of the cross alone you are sinning ????
Gen2:21-23 you should read this.it is in the bible.
Genesis1:27
Jesus Christ is part of the Thrinity. 3 in 1. God , Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit talks to your soul. God makes judgement on you. Jesus Christ covers your sins with his blood.
And you are right because……….?
Republicans truly are the snowflakes, how disappointing to realize 5 years late.
Thank you, James, for speaking truth when all she wants is for us to spew hate. If these people believed in THE truth, there wouldn’t be these issues. Thankfully, our God wins, has already won
Your God won? Great, declare victory and go away.
This is a vague and ignorant statement. “God is good” is not a point when talking about the atrocities/challenges of life by rules setup by man.
Stop being a sheep. The truth may sometimes be ugly – but it’s better to understand and try to improve things than hide behind ‘the cloak of god’
The Bible is mostly anecdotal and fictional, stealing much from other historical writings. It only provides context and clarity to you because you want it to. It is not based in fact, historical or otherwise. It is purely your opinion and interpretation of a manipulated text, this fact has obviously eluded you in your adult life. The convenient justification and explanation for things you don’t have the intellect to understand that the Bible provides you satisfies your psychological deficits, you can conveniently pull out the Bible and justify your simpleton point of view based on writings that you don’t even know where they came from from ???. Talk about ignorant. Grow up.
And no, trans athletes shouldn’t be allowed to participate in this manner. It is contrary to the reasons there are divisions in sports. It’s called logic, weirdo.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Or, they can make a separate league for combined sports – but blurring the lines for current sporting rules is unfair for sure.
I don’t speak for a religion, I speak for the absolute biological difference in men and women. It’s science not religion. Yes there are women as strong as men and men as strong as women but, in general, there always has and always will be a difference between men and women. If we didn’t have generalities either the differences with age and sex then there would be no baby books about general information/ expectations for parents to read, or what you might expect your five or 15 year to be doing at that age. Men and women, for the most part, have physical differences.
This is easily the stupidest thing I’ve read on this thread. And holy moly is that saying a lot. Keep believing you’re one book written by man is the true word lol
Religion doesn’t belong in this conversation at all. Religion is not how we make laws or policy. Not one person on here has done any actual research because if they had they would see that there is no biological, inherent advantage to being “biologically male” it’s all rhetoric to promote hate. The reason I don’t believe in your god is because I can think for myself and the Bible is trash.
WRONG you are, Christians all over the World only Recognize ONE GOD, if you choose to believe there is a plethora of God’s, that’s on you
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? Perhaps some basic math skills would help.
Three parts – one God.
Humans are created in God’s image. We are also 3 parts in one – body, soul, and spirit. It’s not a difficult concept, is it? I’m not trying to sound snarky. It just always baffles me when someone thinks the Bible teaches that Jesus is a separate God. John 1 clearly teaches that “in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God”….”The Word became flesh and dwelt among men”. In him was all the fullness of God.
There is only one God in Christianity.
well tell him to find me and teach me about his word.cause you or i have never seen him.
It’s called “Faith”!
God has showed up in my life and I’ve seen Him perform miracles in the lives of others as well. He will never show up in your life unless you invite him in as He gives us all free will. However, I will continue to pray that someone or a circumstance will cross your path that will bring you to know without a doubt that God is real.
Help me out here. What’s the difference between “soul” and “spirit”? Religion can be so confusing!
Bet you cannot explain the difference between soul and spirt.
please tell me which god that is and how many times you e met him…
Actually, Leviticus quotes God as saying there are other gods but you will only follow him, because he is a jealous god. Undereducated christians are just cult members in the U.S.
So the commandment about no other gods before me was unnecessary? God just threw it in? Not likely.
I really don’t have time to educate you on the Word of God and Christianity, but a god can be anything that you put before God, such as the love of money, and make that your idol that you worship.
I stopped listening to your nonsense when you dismiss those that believe in god, yet people like you believe it’s totally ok for a human being to change their gender via surgery, etc…….who’s the naive person! Oh and it has NOTHING to do with hate but simple common sense. These people need psychological help, not to chop off their make genitalia!
Unreal how damn stupid and gullible people are these days!
You do not speak like a woman of god at all in any way. Your speak beings shame to your faith.
does that mean because we can change and create ourselves that we are gods?
You claim to stop listening but you reply; a miracle!
You’ve got to be kidding! Thousands of gods – really? Using the Bible to justify your “hate”? There’s no hate involved here. Most reasonable people know there are only two genders and they shouldn’t mix in what is supposed to be female only athletic competition. Besides that are you perfect in your morality and ethics such that you can judge those who believe that the Bible says what it means and means what it says. Is your life free from hate?
Thousands is probably an underestimate. God is unlimited in power and knowledge, but he’s only allowed to be what you say he is? God is merciful, but made Abraham murder his own son? Jesus was born from a virgin and turned water to wine? It is not a literal document, despite your sincerely held belief. Thank god we don’t allow some schmuck to declare who our National god is like our National bird…
God did not make Abraham murder Isaac. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to test his faith. Because Abraham was faithful and he trusted God, he went where God called him, but before he killed Isaac, God stopped him and provided a ram for him to sacrifice instead. This can be interpreted as a foreshadowing of God providing the ultimate sacrifice, His son Jesus, to cover our sins. This can be found in Genesis 22.
Ronald Reagan said, “If we ever forget that we’re a nation under God, then we’ll be a nation gone under.”
The pilgrims came to America to seek religious freedom as they did not agree with the Church of England, they were protestants which is a branch of christianity. The Founding Fathers founded the United States with God at the center. Read basically any of our Nation’s articles such as our constitution, The Declaration of Independence, etc. and you will see the emphasis of God. So, there is no need for someone to declare our national god because it is already known that it is God, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob. Now this does not take away from our freedom, as the Founding Fathers also emphasized freedom of religion. I am so very thankful for this freedom and I recognize everyone’s freedom of religion. I pray for all those who do not recognize God as God, that they may turn their hearts to God and repent of their sins and ask for God’s forgiveness. I would like to let all nonbelievers reading this know that you are loved and that God created you on purpose for a purpose and He desires to have a relationship with you if you would receive him.
“because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” ~ Romans 10:9
“if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” ~ 2 Chronicles 7:14
Thank you Sequoia! Beautifully stated.
Former competitive swimmer who wants women to compete against women in all sports.
Wrong, this nation was NOT founded on Christianity and god is never mentioned in the constitution. Although I must say the idea that people were fleeing religious persecution just to persecute others for their religion is ironic as hell.
But you just judged. What punishment will your God dish?
Exactly Michelle!
BUT you support this young man taking over a female sport when the female TRANSGENDER has no way of competing against a true male in the same sport? This is God’s world and you have just found a venue to share your anger against something…or should I say, against the creator of all? Your anger and comment are misplaced here. If you strongly don’t believe, you should be happy I instead of angry.
I do not believe your God exists AND I am not in favor of the current NCAA answer.
Michelle, you’re sick. God in heaven don’t take to kindly to comments like yours. Remember, your life is on His Hands. Good day
You are wrong and God will not like you making threats in his name. Think about your words of threat and then good day? Sad.
There is only one true God. Heathen.
Like there are only two true genders.
Sorry. Not sorry.
There is one God
Fools praise idols
The Bible is justification. The God that inspired the writers is clear. He detests the lifestyle and the act. He has destroyed those that indulge and will again. Nor did he create in you something that he detests just to destroy you , so no, you’re not born that way!