Guest editorial by John Craig
PHOENIX, Arizona, September 2. AFTER Ryan Lochte's summer season, the question arises, who is the second-greatest al- around swimmer of all time? Bear in mind, the emphasis here is on all around. Mark Spitz, until recently considered the best male swimmer of all time, is obviously still the second-best swimmer.
Most lists of all-time greats put the primary emphasis on Olympic glory. For purposes of this discussion we'll count that, but not give it the same primacy it normally gets. Rather, the criteria are, how many strokes and what range of distances was the swimmer world class at, what was his longevity as a world class competitor, how many records did he break, and finally, how much difference was there between his events?
This last criterion is one not normally considered, but would take into account unexpected range. For instance, we've seen swimmers win the 50 free, 100 free, and 100 fly at the NCAAs. And we've seen swimmers win the 500, 400 IM, and 1650. But we've never seen a swimmer win the 50 free, 100 breast, and 1650. Even though such a swimmer would have won no more events, his achievement could arguably be considered more impressive simply by virtue of his greater range.
After Michael Phelps, which swimmer has shown the most strength across the widest range of events? The candidates would include Spitz, Lochte, Gary Hall Sr., Ian Thorpe, Michael Gross and Tamas Darnyi. (This article is going to exclude swimmers from the first half of the twentieth century just because it's so hard to make comparisons going that far back; swimming was almost a different sport then.)
Spitz set more than thirty world records in two strokes, at distances ranging from 100 to 400 meters. Early in his career he barely missed a world record in the 1500. But he never really explored his range the way he might have. In his junior year in high school he set an American record in the 200 IM, but never swam the event at a big long course meet. At Olympic training camp in 1972 Spitz beat all the American backstrokers while leading off an exhibition medley relay – but never pursued that stroke seriously either. Part of the reason for this is that his competition schedule wouldn't have allowed it. (This is basically the same reason Phelps has never pursued the backstroke as seriously as he might have – because there's only one of him.) Plus, in Spitz's day it would have been almost embarrassing to swim much past college – it just wasn't done back then. So he quit at 22, leaving the rest of us to wonder what might have been. Still, world records in five different events show amazing range.
Ian Thorpe swam a 2:00+ for the 200 fly as a 16 year old, at around the same time he was going a 3:46 for the 400 free. Had he pursued the 200 fly, he might have made a serious run at the world record, then at 1:55+. Thorpe also went a 100 back in 55+ at one point, but never really pursued that, either. He did try his hand at the IM, but waited until '03 to do it at a major meet, the world championships in Barcelona. He went a 1:59+, a creditable swim, but that was the summer Phelps not only became the first man to break 1:58, but took the record all the way down to 1:55.9. At Thorpe's peak, in '01, he set the WR in the 800, in his one serious attempt at that; but then he never went beyond 400 meters again. His overall performance at the World Championships in Fukuoka was probably the most dominating performance by a male swimmer since Spitz in '72. And he did win a bronze at the 100 free in Athens. But he didn't show quite enough versatility to be a contender for this title.
Michael Gross set world records in the 200 and 400 free, and 100 and 200 fly (only one less event than Spitz). He won a total of three individual golds at two Olympics. He was unquestionably one of the all-time greats, but because he stuck exclusively to those four events, he's not quite a contender for this particular title either.
If all-around greatness is measured by ability at the IM, then Tamas Darnyi is, apart from Phelps, unquestionably the best IM swimmer of all time. He is in fact actually tied with Phelps in terms of Olympic IM gold (but loses to him in number of world records). The only other men to pull off the double-double (which Darnyi did in '88 and '92) are Roland Matthes, Alexander Popov, and Kosuke Kitajima. (Phelps, of course, pulled off a double quadruple.) But apart from one bronze medal in the 200 fly at the world championships, Darnyi didn't really pursue other events. The IM is the ultimate measure of all-around swimming ability, but someone who just sticks to the IM and does little else is not necessarily the best all-around swimmer.
Gary Hall Sr. is a strong contender for best all-around. His career spanned three Olympiads, from 1968 to 1976, and he won individual medals at all three, though he never won gold. He set numerous world records in both IMs, and also set a WR in the 200 fly in 1970. At his peak, in 1970, he was roughly seven seconds ahead of the second best 400 IMer in the world. Any international comparisons of the best swimmers should exclude short course yards swims, but Hall's most impressive accomplishments may have been in yards. At one point, in the spring of 1971, he had the American records in the 200 yard IM, fly, and backstroke, as well as the fastest time on record in the 200 free, a relay leg of 1:38.3, (Spitz's listed AR at the time was 1:39.5). Hall's biggest weakness was breaststroke, but he was so good in the other strokes that he could afford this one weakness. (In later eras, the top IMer wouldn't have been able to afford such a weakness.)
Finally, we come to the current candidate, Ryan Lochte. Lochte has one individual Olympic gold medal to his credit and three individual world championship titles. But he hit his peak this year, with world number one rankings (so far) in four events: both IMs, and the 200 free and back. He also seems to run into the Phelps problem (i.e, there's only one of him) otherwise he might have challenged for the top spot in the 200 fly. So far, Lochte has set two individual long course world records, far less than some of the others mentioned here, but the comparison is a little unfair because he is hitting his peak in the first post-tech suit year, so that number would probably be higher had tech suits never been allowed (or were they still allowed).
The most impressive thing about Lochte is his range: there has never been another top-ranked 400 IMer (besides Phelps) who was also a world-class sprinter. (Lochte is ranked #22 in the 100 free with a 48.8, only.7 off the leading time.) Again, yards comparisons are semi-moot here, but at the 2007 US Open championships in December, Lochte won both the 50 free and 400 IM, a never-before-seen combination. There also has never been another swimmer – beside Phelps – who held the world number one ranking in three separate 200 meter events. (The year is not over, but at this point it seems unlikely that any of those times will be toppled at the Commonwealth Games.) And Lochte, like Phelps, is a world class breaststroker. Both men have swum early season 100 LCM breasts in 1:02+, and both have swum the 100 yard breaststroke in 53+. That may be the rarest combo of all: world class breaststrokers are rarely world class at other strokes, and vice versa.
Who wins? There's no easy pick here; Spitz, Darnyi, Hall, and Lochte all have legitimate claims. But this writer picks Lochte, based on his versatility and lack of weaknesses. But it's a close call.
John Craig's (nonswimming) blog is justnotsaid.blogspot.com.
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September 2, 2010 Why not Laszlo Cseh? He won 3 silver medals in Beijing, all 3 behind Michael Phelps, and that's his misfortune. His best events are also Phelps' best events. Submitted by: likac05
September 2, 2010 I'm still with Spitz. He didn't have world championships to flex his muscles internationally past the Olympics. By today's standards and events, he could have been WR holder from the 50 free up to the 400 as well as 200 I.M. and both flys. Pretty impressive. His backstroke was on fire as well.....Like Phelps and Lochte, he could pretty much do it all. Submitted by: paddles
September 2, 2010 Spitz. Submitted by: liquidassets
September 2, 2010 Great article. One notable guy to add for an honorable mention is Ryk Neethling. He was close to a 15:00 miler in 2000, then came all the way down to be an individual medalist in the 100mm at a World Champtionships 5 years later. That's range! Submitted by: outside smoke
September 2, 2010 Read somewhere that Spitz actually broke the 1500 Meter World record while in practice one day...IN PRACTICE! That's versatility! Submitted by: Globalswim
September 2, 2010 Spitz held the American record in the 100 back at one point, making him the American record holder in three different strokes during his career (free, fly, back).
Lochte has never held an American freestyle record. He's held IM and Backstroke.
I think Spitz is probably the second best all-around in the last 50 years -- not that Lochte can't change that.
If you actually want to talk about all-time, you should probably check with Bruce Wigo at the Swimming Hall of Fame. Competition events have changed over time and there have been some incredible world leading swimmers outside the modern era. Submitted by: streamline
September 2, 2010 definitely spitz or dolan Submitted by: purple haze
September 3, 2010 Great article, John.
To bolster Gary, Sr.'s claim please note that in 1969 his 4:33.9 400 IM from Louisville nationals was 8.1 seconds ahead of the #2 time in the world (Steve Power, 4:42.0); in the same meet he also set world records in the 200 IM and in a stroke you didn't include on his long-course list: 200 Back (2:06.6; in that era Matthes was playing 200 Back world record leapfrog with Americans--Hickcox...Matthes...Hall...Matthes...Stamm...Matthes who then held it alone till Naber came along). He also held Freestyle world records as part of a 4x200 free relay (as has Lochte, of course); he also won an unrested 400 Free at a mid-summer invitational (Santa Clara? LA Invite? with a time very close to the world record. You mentioned that he medaled in each of his three Olympiads, but for consideration of all-around versatility, his medal events should be mentioned: 1968, second as a 16 year old to Hickcox in distance based 400 IM; in 1972 second to Spitz in endurance-requiring 200 Fly; and then in 1976 he geared down to the most purely sprint based event on the long course program at the time, the 100 Fly. As you mentioned with Spitz, this was an era when very few Americans swam past college. His Montreal Olympiad was filled with irony, some not even recognizable at the time. He was training under Hickcox (another potential candidate for your list who has just recently passed from us)in Cincinnati as a 24 year old medical student and father (remember the famous photo of Gary Sr. holding Gary Jr. in the pool after either his Trials or Games swim; who knew what an Olympic medal collector Jr. would become!). I was a college teammate of both Gary Sr. and Spitz. If you are speaking consistent effort and versatility (and bad timing for point of dominance in the Olympic cycle), you go with Hall. If you are looking for explosive brilliance and perfect Olympic cycle timing (I suppose he deserved to hit that on the head after suffering through 1968 as he had), you go with Spitz. Both remarkably deserving choices.
One last fun point on the subject of versatility concerns a swimmer who isn't really a candidate for your list but who had a meet with a breadth of quality performance quite possibly unmatched by anyone ON your list. Larry Farrar, swimming for John Mecheam (sp?) at University of New Mexico, was a scorer in both the 50 Freestyle and the 1650 Freestyle in the very same mid-70's NCAA Championships ... while failing to score in the 100, 200 or 500. Now THAT'S versatile!! Submitted by: dunc1952
September 3, 2010 One other point of interest about Spitz and Hall is that both were the outstanding 10 year old in the country in their time, each setting multiple NAG records. Submitted by: dunc1952
September 3, 2010 neither over training but each learning wonderful skills later put to great use. Submitted by: dunc1952
September 3, 2010 Before Lochte is finished, he will be 2nd best. Submitted by: rworkman
September 3, 2010 I'd have to go with Lochte and Spitz a distant third. Submitted by: bluemoon
September 4, 2010 Spitz. Spitz and Spitz. His form, stroke execution and technique are still well beyond the field including Phelps. To know and understand how to swim fly, study the old videos of Mark Spitz. There are secrets there that many have missed and few have understood. Great article, well written. Submitted by: Small Stone
September 4, 2010 I agree with you that Spitz was all time 2nd best, but I thought everyone said he could have gone so much faster on his fly if he didn't go so vertical all the time. At least when they were comparing him with Phelps that is. On the other hand, his 54.2 in a moustache, long hair, and a nylon speedo, with no cap or goggles, and minimal weight training, held up pretty well over the years didn't it? ;-) Submitted by: liquidassets
September 4, 2010 I agree with liquid and Small Stone about Spitz...... You have to wonder what he could have done had he had today's technology and training...... Submitted by: paddles
September 4, 2010 Thank you to everybody for your feedback. Well, the consensus seems to be Spitz. It's hard to argue with that, and I'd certainly never argue against his greatness. I suppose I was biasing the criteria slightly toward Lochte by emphasizing unexpected range (winning the 50 free and 400 IM at the same nationals, or being world class at breaststroke as well as the other strokes). But Spitz certainly has it all over him in terms of number of world records, and number of events he set world records at. Anyway, this is the kind of discussion that's can be fun because there's not necessarily a right or wrong answer.
Paddles: I'm with you on how Spitz could have won the 200IM and 400 free in Munich. He had set the Ar in the 200 yard IM with a 1:54.4 in his junior year in high school, in 1967, and Gunnar Larson won the 200 IM in Munich with a 2:07.1. Given that Spitz's 200 lcm fly improved five seconds from '67 to '72, and that a 1:54 for yards is roughly equal to a 2:09 or 2:10 for meters, there's little doubt he could have won the IM in '72 as well. And Spitz set the WR in the 400 free twice as a high schooler, first with a 4:08.8 and then with a 4:07.7, both times in early season meets, unshaved. I heard that in Olympic training camp in '72 he swam an 800 free from a pushoff in 8:45, going out in 4:30 and coming back in 4:15. Rick Demont won the 400 in Munich in 4:00.26 (and was later disqualified, unfairly, for his asthma medication). Spitz won the 200 in 1:52.78. One would think he could have just taken the first 350 out in 3:30, and then just done whatever it took to outsprint Demont and Cooper in that last 50. I have to disagree with you about the 50, though. He actually swam the 50 free at NCAAs for his last three years at Indiana, and never won. Dave Edgar was pretty dominant in that race at the time, and had they swum it long course, Edgar would probably have prevailed.
Streamline: I'm pretty sure Spitz never held the Ar in the 100 back. I followed the sport fairly closely back then and remember the record progression from Fred Haywood to Charlie Hickcox to Larry Barbiere to Mike Stamm, and if Spitz had set it at one point, I think I would have remembered. (This is not to say he couldn't have set it if he had gone after it.)
Dunc1952: Thank you for that fact about Hall's 200 back world record. I had vaguely remembered that, but wasn't sure, and when I looked up the record progression on Wikipedia, for some strange reason they only had it going back to 1972 (for most events they have the progression going back to 1957 or so), so since I wasn't sure, I didn't include it. Anyway, it certainly does bolster Hall's case.
Thanks again to everybody for the feedback. I'm going to write one about the greatest all around woman swimmer sometime in the next week, hope you will all weigh in on that.
John Craig Submitted by: halfbreed
September 4, 2010 I don't think Spitz held the 100 back record either but I remember reading on here a story of how he beat Stamm in a time trial in practice, in a time that either equalled or was very close to the current AR. Submitted by: liquidassets
September 4, 2010 You are right about Edgar! How could I forget? Edgar was already on the team in the 100 fly and 4X100 free relay. His 50 speed was blazing fast. Great call. I appreciate it. Submitted by: paddles
September 4, 2010 John, I am chomping at the bit for the female side to your story! If I can prematurely put my vote in, I go with Shane Gould. I know about Dawn Fraser winning the 100 free at successive Olympics, but Shane held ALL the freestyle world records at one time,...throw in her 200 I.M. world record and what she did at thew US short course nationals in Cinci in 1973...well....enough said. Submitted by: paddles
September 4, 2010 Yeah and Gould did all that before retiring at the ripe old age of 16. Who knows what she could have done with several more Olympics and World Championships under her belt? Or would she have flamed out early? Sadly we'll never know. Submitted by: liquidassets
September 4, 2010 Paddles -- Thanks; let me warn you ahead of time that at least at this point I plan on a slight cop out of an answer that may satisfy nobody (but is the best answer I can come up with). Anyway, I'll be happy to be outvoted again. Also, the emphasis on this one will again be "all around," so Dawn Fraser, great as she was, would not be in the running; although she had the longevity, she didn't have the range or versatility. Submitted by: halfbreed
September 4, 2010 Ryan Lochte finaled in the 1650 at NCAAs his freshman year at Florida. He was a 14:55 miler. Submitted by: jjswim
September 4, 2010 According to USA swimming Mark Spitz held the American Record in the 100 LCM back in 1972
American Record Progressions
51.94 Aaron Peirsol 07/07/2009
52.54 Aaron Peirsol 08/09/2008
52.89 Aaron Peirsol 06/29/2008
52.98 Aaron Peirsol 03/25/2007
53.17 Aaron Peirsol 04/02/2005
53.45 Aaron Peirsol 08/21/2004
53.60 Lenny Krayzelburg 08/24/1999
53.86 Jeff Rouse 07/31/1992
53.93 Jeff Rouse 08/22/1991
54.51 Dave Berkoff 09/24/1988
54.91 Dave Berkoff 08/13/1988
54.95 Dave Berkoff 08/13/1988
55.19 Rick Carey 08/21/1983
55.38 Rick Carey 08/06/1983
55.44 Rick Carey 08/06/1983
55.49 John Naber 07/19/1976
56.19 John Naber 07/19/1976
56.80 John Naber 07/19/1976
57.35 John Naber 08/22/1975
57.56 John Naber 08/21/1975
57.70 Mark Spitz 08/29/1972 Submitted by: ncswim
September 4, 2010 My reference to Spitz holding the 100 back American record came from the media guide that USA Swimming publishes and the event history that has been published here on SW from time to time. Under the 100M Back it lists Mitch Ivey as breaking the American record twice on 8/28/72 and then Spitz breaking it on 8/29/72 with a 57.70. The record stood until John Naber broke it in 1975.
The curious thing about the timing of the Spitz record is that it falls on the same day that he won the 200 free at the '72 Olympics. Also, Mike Stamm went 57.70 in the 100 back final to take second and does not appear as a co-record holder. I think there might be an error in the record books unless someone can explain it. Submitted by: streamline
September 4, 2010 Streamline -- You're exactly right, that was a mistake. That 57.70 belongs to Stamm, not Spitz. Spitz swam exactly seven events at the '72 Olympics, four individual events and three relays, won gold in each, and his four individual events were the 100 and 200 free and 100 and 200 fly. He did not swim the backstroke at the Olympics. Submitted by: halfbreed
September 4, 2010 If anyone has a time travel machine, I want to borrow it for a while. Go back in time and get Spitz to swim SERIOUSLY the 200 I.M., 400 free and the 100 back. I don't know if he could have defeated Roland Matthes in the 100 back at Munich, but it would have been one hell of a race. Forget the horse, my kingdom for a time machine!!!!!! Submitted by: paddles
September 4, 2010 Lochte is hard to pick based on his international success at this stage (despite him swimming at the 2004 Olympics)... as it doesn't seem that he's reached his potential and as you said, he's really establishing himself in the past 2 years. However, more than just winning titles, it's his times in his events that make him so versatile; he's world class certain even if he hasn;t won as many medals.
Interestingly, the list is heavily skewed to eras Submitted by: woowoo
September 4, 2010 Lochte is hard to pick based on the criteria of international success at this stage (despite him swimming at the 2004 Olympics)... as it doesn't seem that he's reached his potential and as you said, he's really established himself in the past 2 years. However, more than just winning titles, it's his times in his events that make him so versatile; he's world class certainly even if he hasnt won as many medals.
Interestingly, the list is heavily skewed to eras that are well defined so that you can argue who was the best of each era really.
You mentioned that swimming has changed so much from pre 1970 to today, but the competition has changed so much from 1970.
Is it fair to say that it would be harder to be a medal contender today than it did back then with increased competiion and more standardised coaching? Submitted by: woowoo
September 4, 2010 Though not a contender for the title I thought I would list some of Thorpe's achievements beyond the 200 free and 400 free.
In 2001 Thorpe swam a WR 7:39.16 for the 800 free at the same meet he set WRs in the 400 and 200, however he also set a PB of 48.81 in the 100 free. That time would have ranked close to the top 10 all time (at my last count 11th in the world) which is very respectable. He was ranked 4th in the world that year in the event.
The year before at a state meet Thorpe swam a 15.25.05 in the 1500 to post a qualifying time for the Olympic Trials, the same year he went a 49.45 in the 100.
2002 is when he swam the 100 back in PB 55.38 (19th for the year) at the same meet as his 400 WR swim. He also finished the year 3rd ranked in the 100 free.
In 2003 he won gold in the 200 and 400 free, set a PB of 1.59.66 in the 200 IM winning silver and set a PB in the 100 of 48.71 (semi) winning bronze in the final.
His 200 IM time ranked him 4th best for the year and I think made him the 7th best performer in history in the event. He was also ranked 4th for the year in the 100 free.
I think 2003 was just as impressive for him as 2001.
His 48.56 100 free PB in 2004 ranked him 9th all time performer.
So, not the second best all time, but not bad for a 'middle distance freestyler' I guess. Submitted by: woowoo
September 4, 2010 I think women's all around best is easier.
My top two pick would be Shane Gould and Tracy Caulkins. Submitted by: aswimfan
September 5, 2010 Woman=Tracy Caulkins
Best Ever Submitted by: bluemoon
September 5, 2010 Ok, Tracy Caulkins' international results. Besides her three Olympic gold medals from 1984, her domination at the 1978 World Championships in the former West Berlin were incredible....Five gold medals and one silver. Three world records individually and a fourth including the 4X100 free relay. Pan American Games multi-gold medalist..... But the two big hiccups (which were not of her doing) was the 1980 Olympic Boycott (what could she have done there????) and the DDR legacy. Her rivalry with Petra Schneider and Ute Geweniger was legendary. Unfortunately the two East Germans had a teensy advantage.....steroids - which was why she rarely defeated them head to head. Take away that shadow and Tracy could have very well been the most dominant female in world swimming history.
And there is still Yana Klochkova..... World and Olympic champion in the I.M.s AND a world champion and Olympic silver medalist in the freestyle......
Debbie Meyer from 1967 to 1970....
Shirley Babashoff.....most definitely the "What if????" swimmer. What if she had competed against a clean and fair field? She could have very well been an eight time world champion as well as winning five gold medals at the 1976 Olympics.....What legacy would she have written? We will never know.....
Submitted by: paddles
September 8, 2010 I also think Lazslo Cseh should have been considered, as he was a top backstroker at the 2004 olympics, is obviously a top IM'er, came second to phelps in the 200 fly in 2008, and is a very good freestyler and breastroker as well. He wouldn't beat out lochte but should make the list. Submitted by: smokey37
September 9, 2010 Tamas Darnyi held the "world best" time in the 200 backstroke (1:56.6 I believe), short course, back in the eighties. Too bad he didn't swim more events at the international championships. Submitted by: arnoldw
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