Story first reported afternoon of July 23. Latest update early July 25. Hit refresh for the latest information.
PHOENIX, Arizona, July 23. A coach with knowledge of the situation, but not on the Olympic staff, has confirmed to Swimming World that Jessica Hardy has tested positive for a banned substance. In addition, Swimming World has spoken with athletes on the Olympic team at the training camp who told us that Hardy is no longer at the camp.
In a later update, the Associated Press reported that "Hardy's attorney, Howard Jacobs, confirmed to NBC News that the former Cal star tested positive for the banned stimulant clenbuterol."
The AP also reported in a later update:
"Jessica denies that she has taken any prohibited substances," Jacobs said. "We're looking into explanations for the positive ."
Jacobs told Abrahamson that the first test administered July 1 after the 100 breaststroke came back negative, as did the final one July 6 following Hardy's 50 free race.
The second test, following the 100 free July 4, resulted in the positive test -- the A and B samples -- for clenbuterol. The results of the B sample from July 4 were made available Tuesday night.
"That is a very peculiar pattern," Jacobs told Abrahamson. "It does not make sense."
Hardy first burst onto the international scene at the 2005 World Championships in Montreal, where she broke the world record in the 100 breast with a time of 1:06.20. The time still stands as the American record.
Hardy swam for California for two seasons, winning the 100 breast at the 2006 and 2007 NCAA Championships, before turning professional and moving back to California to train with former club coach Dave Salo at the University of Southern California.
If Hardy is indeed outlawed from competing in Beijing due to a positive test, her absence will deal a major blow to the United States contingent in China. Not only is Hardy a medal threat in her premier event, the 100 breaststroke, she's entered in the 50 freestyle. More damaging, however, would be her lack of contributions in relay duty.
While the Australians are favored to win the gold medal in the 400 medley relay, Hardy's breaststroke leg figured to play a major role in the Americans' quest for an upset. With Leisel Jones well in front of the rest of the globe, the United States needed a big effort from Hardy (sub-1:06-range) to stay within striking distance. As for the 400 free relay, Hardy has become a top sprint-freestyler and was likely going to handle a leg in Beijing. Her efforts were expected to go a long way in determing the gold, which will be a fight between the U.S., Australia and the world-record holding Netherlands.
The deadline to add new swimmers to the U.S. Olympic roster has come and gone. USA Swimming can only add swimmers to the events vacated by Hardy from the available pool of talent already on the squad.
Kara Lynn Joyce is the next fastest available swimmer on the roster in the women's 50 free, while Rebecca Soni is the next fastest American on the team in the women's 100 breast.
The news comes just a bit too late to be helpful for Lara Jackson, the third-place finisher at Trials in the 50 free, and Tara Kirk, the third-place finisher in the 100 breast. After not making the team originally, the pair would be bypassed for Joyce and Soni.
The Associated Press reported the following response from Hardy's agent Evan Morgenstein:
Agent Evan Morgenstein told the AP that during a brief phone conversation with Hardy, she told him, "I never did anything wrong. I never cheated."
Morgenstein said he's heard there were conflicting results from Hardy's tests, though he didn't have any details.
"I'm very, very concerned about the confusion of her test coming up positive-negative-positive," Morgenstein said. "She's the one person I would never believe would do anything—anything—to cheat. Ever."
According to a report at NBCOlympics.com, "both her A and B samples have come back positive." NBCOlympics.com also reports that the tests came from Trials.
USA Swimming released the following statement from Executive Director Chuck Wielgus:
"USA Swimming has been notified of the anti-doping proceeding involving a U.S. athlete. The matter is being handled by USADA and we are hopeful that the matter will be resolved expeditiously. Out of respect for the hearing process, USA Swimming will have no further comment at this time."
Salo released the following statement to the press:
At this point, there is not a lot to say other than we are very disappointed with the testing results which is an obvious emotion.
I do not have all the details of the results, so it is difficult for me to make a comment. I have been told that Jessica tested negative on July 1, tested positive on July 4 and tested negative again on July 6. In addition, as often as she has been randomly tested over the past two years in competition and out of competition, there has never been any testing result that has come back in question.
I believe this was an inadvertent consumption of a banned substance and I have urged Jessica to have any supplement, vitamin, etc. that she has consumed to be tested for purity.
Having said that, in 30 years of coaching I have never encouraged and have generally discouraged my athletes of taking supplements of any kind.
The community of athletes -- elite and otherwise -- do believe in the benefit of supplements and in fact many coaches often prescribe such supplements with the expectations of better training recovery, etc. The worst fears may be realized in this circumstance as it pertains to Jessica – i.e. the supplement industry runs unabated without any controls.
Jessica has come by her results with honest committed hard work.
Hardy is not the first American to be removed from the Olympic swim team before the start of the Games due to a positive drug test. In 1988, Angel Myers won three events at the U.S. Olympic Trials, then was given a two-year suspension when urine tests found Nandrolone, a banned substance that is known to increase muscle growth and red-blood cell count.
According to an article in the October 1988 issue of Swimming World Magazine, Myers appealed to the American Arbitration Association on Sept. 1, the day before the final Olympic roster had to be submitted to the International Olympic Committee. She claimed the birth control pills she was taking had "the same metabolites within the body as does Nandrolone."
Myers' appeal was denied. The American records she set in the 100 free (54.95) and 50 free (25.40) were removed from the record books.
Because the results of the drug test were made public before the roster submission deadline, the third-place swimmers in each of Myers' events were able to be placed on the team. Dara Torres, who placed third in the 100 free and was already a part of the 400 free relay, was entered in the individual 100 free. Janel Jorgensen was now the second-fastest swimmer behind Mary T. Meagher in the 100 fly, and Jill Sterkel became the first American swimmer to make four Olympic teams by her entry into the 50 free.
Torres finished seventh in the 100 free at the Olympics, Jorgensen was fifth in the 100 fly and Sterkel tied for the bronze medal in the 50 free.
After Myers completed her two-year suspension from the sport, she returned in 1991 with the married name of Martino and won gold in the 100 free at the Pan-Pacific Championships. She would make the Olympic team in 1992 without incident, winning gold on the 400 free relay and bronze in the 50 free.
Martino made another trip to the Olympics in 1996, where she won four medals: bronze in the 100 free and 100 fly, and gold in the 400 free and 400 medley relays.
More information will come on this developing story. Make sure to hit refresh for the latest information.
Search For More News About: Jessica Hardy
Reaction Time Comments
Reaction Time responses do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions
of Swimming World Magazine or SwimmingWorldMagazine.com.
Reaction Time is provided as a service to our readers.
July 23, 2008 Wow. This is extremely disappointing. I am really curious as to what drug she test positive for. Submitted by: MJB
July 23, 2008 Any idea when they'll get the results of the B sample? Submitted by: Michelle
July 23, 2008 B samples are back... Shes toast... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 Yes it is true... B samples are dirty...
Clenbuterol
(Clen)
Clenbuterol (Clen) is a selective beta-2 agonist/antagonist and a bronchodilator. What this means, is that it stimulates your beta-2 receptors. Of great importance, is that Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist (because it works selectively on the beta-2-andrenergic-receptors), right? The thing is, Clenbuterol is selective...like hitting a tack (the tack being your beta-2 receptors) with a small hammer (the hammer being the Clen)...thus, it hits the beta-2 receptors selectively. Sorry if that seems repetitious, but it´s very important to understand that fact before .....
http://www.steroid.com/Clenbuterol.php
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 OMG. i heard something about this on a collegeswimming thread a couple days ago. wow im surprised its her. this is incredibly disappointing and kind of makes me want to throw up. Submitted by: WUswimmer
July 23, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
Interesting stuff under the "Human use" section. I sincerely hope this was a mistake, or a tainted supplement, and not an intentional attempt at cheating. Only Jessica and God know for sure... Submitted by: MJB
July 23, 2008 just what i thought. its used for asthma medication. thats kind of ridiculous i think because for people that have asthma and need medication because of it severity needs the medication. I dont think she needs it for weight loss but then again she could have. I just believe that she has asthma and needed it for that. this is crazy Submitted by: WUswimmer
July 23, 2008 I feel the same as WU....
As soon as I read it, I immediately flashed back to 1988 and the Angel Myers-Martino incident and felt the same nausea as I did then. Submitted by: paddles
July 23, 2008 not just asthma...
Clenbuetrol causes a solid, highly qualitative muscle growth which goes hand in hand with a significant strength gain. Clenbuetrol also has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, numerous athletes use Clenbuetrol after steroid treatment to balance the resulting catabolic phase and thus obtain maximum strength and muscle mass. Please note, though, there are no scientific evidence these effects, that are proven in animals, also occurs in humans during the use of Clenbuetrol.
Clenbuetrol works very effectively as a fat burner. It does this by slightly increasing the body temperature. The rise is not usually dramatic, a half of a degree, sometimes a little more but rarely more than one degree. This elevation is due to the body will burn excess energy (largely from fat) and is usually not uncomfortable.
The body will fight this, though, by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta-receptor down regulation, which explains why Clenbuetrol is effective only over a limited time period Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 Dumb question, so please overlook the obvious, but does this mean that Jessica took the drug to INTENTIONALLY cheat???? Submitted by: paddles
July 23, 2008 Only she knows that. but i found this quite interesting...
"Why, in other words, do people cheat in situations where there is little to gain - one good grade, a slight edge in a game - and so much to lose?
This irrationality may be the rule, rather than the exception, when it comes to cheating, according to a group of scholars who have turned their attention to the mysteries of the cheating mind. Cheating is often thought of as something that is done after cold calculation. But, the new research has found, people are prone to cheat even when it is not in their best interest. Instead of carefully weighing the costs and benefits of breaking the rules, people can be heavily swayed by peer pressure, their mood, their image of themselves. Sometimes, people even cheat out of a sense of fairness."
But then again, we may never know.... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 In my opinion, she really didn't give
that great a performance at the trials anyway. It's not like she set a world record
or anything. So much for the effectiveness of these stupid drugs. I hope to God she didn't screw someone more deserving out of a shot.
Quite a shocker. Submitted by: Billyboy
July 23, 2008 true, but its going to really hurt in the medal count. possible 4 medal worth. :(
JUST SOME MORE FYI...
As of fall, 2006, Clenbuterol is not an ingredient of any therapeutic drug approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, but is still used as an unproven slimming aid,[1] and is now banned for IOC-tested athletes.[3] Jason Grimsley, former Major League baseball pitcher, admitted to using this drug. Former Major League Baseball first Baseman David Segui has admitted to ordering the substance. Entertainer Britney Spears has been reported as being a user of the drug in order to boost rapid weight loss, according to reports from the newspaper, The Sun, and has been doing so for over half a year. The tennis player Mariano Puerta was once penalized for use of clenbuterol. Australian wrestler Mitchil Mann was also suspended for testing positive for the drug.[4] Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 Dist Freak,
WHO is your source that it was Clenbuterol that she tested positive for? Submitted by: SwimMD
July 23, 2008 Were these samples taken at trials? If so we should have had these results and put replacements on the team for her far before today. I cannot believe that USA Swimming and all of their money can't process tests in a time frame that allows to put forth the best team. What is going on? Submitted by: Joe Mama
July 23, 2008 Secondly, folks, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Women were not designed to be "cut." Fit surely, but not cut. It is natural to question the seemingly unnatural. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 23, 2008 sorry, i'm really curious. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 23, 2008
Its not USA Swimming testing, its WADA........
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 I do not know of any swimmer at this level who needs to "lose weight". I can understand runners wanting to shed an ounce or two but not swimmers....Posted by an asthmatic skinny swimmer..... Submitted by: Anon
July 23, 2008 Still no source on your clenbuterol information.
UNTIL THERE'S A SOURCE FOR ALL WE KNOW, she could have just taken the wrong cough medicine (albeit stupid, but not intentionally trying to cheat).
Submitted by: SwimMD
July 23, 2008 Not who I expected, but I'm glad someone is getting caught. Poor Tara and Lara got screwed. Submitted by: Retired
July 23, 2008 and Anon,
just because they don't "need" to lose weight doesn't mean they're not interested in losing weight.
Plus, we can't actually confirm that she tested positive for Clen.
Submitted by: SwimMD
July 23, 2008 Despite China's vast efforts on food safety, questions about contaminants still surface. In late June, China banned top swimmer Ouyang Kunpeng for life after he failed a doping test. The back-stroker later said he'd eaten barbecue on vacation, and the meat may have contained the banned substance clenbuterol.
Often used as a bodybuilding aid, clenbuterol is prohibited for use by China's farmers, but it still finds its way into meat. In 2006, 330 people fell ill in Shanghai after eating pork tainted with clenbuterol.
''It increases the yield of the animal significantly,'' said Dennis L. Erpelding of Elanco Animal Health, an Indianapolis company, adding that meat containing the substance could leave residues in the human body. He said China ``has taken action not to see it used.''
After a New York Times story Feb. 9 said U.S. Olympians would take some of their own food to the Beijing games because of fears of steroids in meat, startled Chinese officials bemoaned the lack of confidence in their country.
Since then, the U.S. Olympic Committee has said repeatedly that it trusts the quality of food that will be served to athletes at the Olympic Village, where most of the 594 U.S. athletes will stay and dine.
The Olympic Committee is shipping 27,440 pounds of food to Beijing to be served primarily at the high-performance training facility set up on the campus of Beijing Normal University, said Nicole Saunches, a committee spokeswoman.
''We as an Olympic committee shipped more dry goods to Athens and more products overall to Athens [in 2004] than we are shipping to China,'' Saunches said.
So there are many athletes from many sports who traveled to test events in China and ate the meat in the "American Restaurant" in their hotel. Are they at risk?
How many countries regulate steroids in meat?
Did Jessica travel to one? Submitted by: oceans43
July 23, 2008 Yeah, she ate Chinese food at Trials. LMAO! Do you know how hard it is to test positive? Submitted by: Retired
July 23, 2008 How hard is it exactly, to test positive? Submitted by: Anon
July 23, 2008 No, I don't. I have met her though and she seems like an amazingly kind, lovely young woman. Don't under estimate what can be found in international meat. There are hundreds of articles about it. What does LMAO mean? Submitted by: oceans43
July 23, 2008 http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f00/web1/paluska.html
Clenbuterol is widely used for livestock.
Interesting article.
Makes me change to the organic meat section. Submitted by: oceans43
July 23, 2008 I feel bad for the third place swimmer, but I think I feel worse for Megan Jendrick. Hardy, if she cheated, took away Jendrick's triumphant return. Don't get me wrong making the team after eight years if huge, but comeon... she didn't get the victory lap, she didn't get that water stream thing with her name spelled out. She will go down in the books as the real winner, but you cant get a moment like that back.
And wasn't it Hardy who kept Jendrick off the Montreal worlds team? And kept her off the 50/100 breast and relay at worlds in 2007? Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 23, 2008 LMAO means "Laughing My A** Off." It's not as if a small amount of a substance will result in a positive test. It has to be a ridiculous, out of this world amount of a substance to trigger a positive test. None of the testing agencies want to have a mistake on their hands. So the levels of any substance required for a positive test are through the roof.
And don't mistake kind and loving for a lack of ambition. Marion Jones was pretty sweet too. Submitted by: Retired
July 23, 2008 LMAO = Laugh My A__ Off....
quite easy Anon... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 thats one of the problems.. these other swimmers (3rd and 4th place finishers) may not have been training.... They may be on vacation enjoying themselves... ; ) Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 Hardy wasn't much faster than Jendrick or Joyce in the 100 breast/50 free, respectively, so the loss of her as a swimmer isn't a big deal, but man.. what a tarnishing blow... Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 23, 2008 Hey all, just letting you know I'm about to pass out. This story has pretty much ruled our lives today, and probably will for the next bit.
I will approve any new comments when I get up tomorrow morning. Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 23, 2008 not sure she was tapered yet.... prolly could have gone faster at the games.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 go to bed jason...
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 23, 2008 sleep tight snookems! Submitted by: onehandtoucher
July 23, 2008 NIghtnight Jason..sleep tight. Submitted by: laurenish
July 23, 2008 Interesting info from Cornell University re: levels of clenbuterol found in meat from animals given the drug vs amount taken by athletes: "Clenbuterol has found popularity in bodybuilding and other sports where lean mass is desired. Athletes generally take a 20 mcg dose 3 times a day for 2 days then go off it for 2 days. They repeat this cycle for 6-8 weeks. The most prominant short term toxic effects athletes experience is heart palpatations, insomnia, and muscle cramping. The long term side effect would include destruction of the adrenergic receptors; permanant impairment of thyroid activity, making the athlete unable to regulate his/her metabolism and be intolerable to cold temperatures; death. The amount used by athletes are far less than what livestock are fed, and still less than the residual clenbuterol found in meat from animals that were fed clenbuterol."
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/1998term/Sean/sean.html
Submitted by: Get the Info
July 24, 2008 I never thought Jessica a cheat, but when you think about, just how many 50/100m Breastrokers do you see that become great 50/100m Freestylers? Is it really that big of a shock? I often get in trouble on Forums for being cynical, but let's face it, there are cheats out there, and every country has them. We should just be thankful that countries like mine (Australia) and the USA don't have state sponsored systematic doping like the old GDR, or China in the '90's. We can't be myopic though (and this is where I get in trouble), after all, did nobody ever suspect Rachel Komisarz, or what about Christine Magnusson this year? Dara Torres is going to have questions asked of her no matter how many tests she passes. Look at Tarnee White of Australia, and what about Stephanie Rice? She swam a pb to win the bronze medal at the 400IM in Melbourne, over 9 seconds behind Katie Hoff. Twelve months later she swims 10 seconds faster and breaks Hoff's wr? Any honest fan is going to question a performance like that. To not do so is clearly myopic. If a female Chinese swimmer did it we'd be up in arms. And speaking of cut, what about Inge de Bruijn? I'm not saying that these swimmers are cheats, but there has to be question marks. If guilty, I don't feel any sympathy for Jessica at all. I feel sorry for the swimmers who now can't be placed on the team. Rebecca Soni and Kara Lynn Joyce will do sterling jobs though, I'm sure. I don't think the USA had a chance of beating Australia in the 4 x 100m Medley Relay anyway. I expect people to be angry at me for my cynicism, but I've followed this sport since 1972 and not everything is always as it seems. Thank goodness swimming isn't as bad as athletics! Victor Conte stated that the top 20 in every event is "getting help" shall we say? He's probably right. Submitted by: Cobber
July 24, 2008 Wow, I came in late on this. I just saw her father at the gas station across the street from my house last week and he was quiet and modest about her feats, but all smiles and obviously a proud dad.
Based on local word about her character here in Long Beach and her public persona, she seems legit to me; just my gut feeling. I did suspect a couple others at trials but not her. I suspect a tainted supplement (a la Kicker Vencill) or mixup on her medication. But who knows? What a shame. Submitted by: liquidassets
July 24, 2008 I think that USA swimming trials need to be a little earlier before the games so that if this is ever to happen again there will be time to replace the athlete with someone who tested cleanly. Aside from the fact that Jessica had a positive test, the fact that there is not time to replace her with the next best is a real drag.
Hardy has never tested positive before. Her swims at World Champs are not in question. People are acting like this negates anything she has ever done or will do. I disagree. Submitted by: laurenish
July 24, 2008 "Jacobs, one of the nation's leading defense lawyers for athletes accused in doping-related matters, said Hardy was tested three times at the Trials, which concluded July 6 in Omaha, Neb.
The first test -- on July 1 -- came back negative, he said.
The second in the series -- on July 4 -- registered the positive test, both the A and B samples, he said.
The third -- on July 6 -- was negative.
"That is a very peculiar pattern," Jacobs said, adding, "It does not make sense." "
From NBC Olympics - http://www.nbcolympics.com/swimming/news/newsid=154936.html#hardy+fails+drug+test Submitted by: kbm1280
July 24, 2008 I'm really glad that everyone is conducting such a rational conversation.
We don't know she tested positive for clenbuterol.
She could have tested positive for THC (marijuana) for all we know.
Why doesn't someone go dig up some dirt on body builders and their smoking habit for a change of pace.
BE A LITTLE MORE SCIENTIFIC. Unless DIST FREAK cites his source that she indeed tested for clenbuterol, I don't believe it. No sane doctor would give her a prescription for that and she'd have to be extremely stupid to take a non-reg prescription.
Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 I give up.
If people educated themselves about their own bodies, this wouldn't happen.
If people educated themselves about a *TINY BIT* of chemistry, all this judging wouldn't happen either.
As far as time disappointments for the games.
Soni in the 100 br swam about as fast as Hardy (0.1 sec) and thus faster than Kirk AT TRIALS. Joyce swam within less than a tenth of Lara Jackson recently. Timewise, it's fine.
Learn to be a little more objective, analytical and learned when interpreting data.
THIS NEWS SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET BY WADA REGULATIONS (she hasn't had an arbitration hearing yet) so
STOP JUDGING. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 This is pretty interesting... I don't remember the same sympathy going out to the Chinese backstroker (and coach) who was banned FOR LIFE for testing positive for the same drug. Some things to note;
- Clenbuterol is a horse steroid (and that's what her attorney said she tested positive for on NBCOlympics.com). No taking it accidentally.
- Shouldn't we be more concerned with doping offences rather than relay spots?? In the spirit of clean sport that is.
- Shouldn't we discuss why a young girl is taking drugs in order to make herself better?
This is NOT about a relay spot and if Team USA is going to be alright; this is about sport. Save your sympathy for the third place finishers and others inadvertantly affected. Just because she's cute, blonde and speaks English doesn't mean that she didn't do it. Submitted by: Alex
July 24, 2008 Also, press release from the AP says she tested positive for a stimulant; e.g. NOT clenbuterol.
From a chemical standpoint, clen is not a stimulant. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/18361.asp
Incidentally - here is the article about the Chinese backstroker. Where was everyone screaming 'HE'S NOT GUILTY?' No suggestions that it was an 'over the counter prescription' or that he simply ate bad meat (until one of 'ours' gets accused. Also the 'bad meat' argument is absolutely ridiculous, it can never be disproved.). As a critique of Swiminfo - there didn't seem to be too much discussion about relay spots and the impact he would have; it stuck solely on the fact that he was cheating (which, in my opinion, you should have). However, in Jessica Hardy's case...
If you're going to be fine when it's 'them,' be fine when it's 'us.'
And while the news may not have been appropriately released, shouldn't we be concerned with the DOPING side of it far more than the inappropriate release of information? Let's not avoid the main issue here; the use of performance enhancing drugs. Submitted by: Alex
July 24, 2008 SwimMD....
No script necessary...a 10 yr old with a CC could have ample supply to "loose weight"
Havent judged anyone... and BTW OJ is innocent 2.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 The worst part about this is that the two girls who got 3rd in the 50 free and 100 breast will not get to swim because they aren't the team already Submitted by: distancegirl
July 24, 2008 ok- really... whens the last time anything of any importance in sport, business or politics has not been leaked. no, it doesnt make it right, but lets be realistic here.
also... i believe any ruling by the CAS will be binding and final. Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008
SHE TESTED POSITIVE FOR A STIMULANT...
NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT CLENBUTEROL. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Right on, SwimMD! Submitted by: paddles
July 24, 2008 Swimdoc...
what are you talking about. this is from a high profile weightlifters forum... open your eyes...
"Man oh man, my first day using clen i had 3 pumps. i was soo damn scared that my heart was pumping like a [expletive deleted] and i was sweating like a [expletive deleted], went to the gym and i was afraid to work out with weights since they make ur heart pump faster. i thought i was gonna have a heart attack. man o man that stuff is scary. i woke up today with a big [expletive deleted] headache!!!! and i caught a cold coz i was sweating and it was soo [expletive deleted] windy outside lol. when i standing im shakin like crazy lol. it looked like i seen a ghost. today im only gonna take one pump and tommorow two and he day after 3. ill stay with 3 pumps a day. what do u guys think??? if u want me to take 4, lol i dont think so ahahahaha. man i wanna live!!!! i take my clen on an empty stomache. or should u take it after u eat?? guys help me out here. and also im using 100 mg of primo once a week for 10 weeks. tell me what u guys think about it. thing is im afraid i dont wanna loose my hair, but my dosage is very low 100mg a week so is that still strong enough to give me some bad side effects???
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 "The first test -- on July 1 -- came back negative, he said.
The second in the series -- on July 4 -- registered the positive test, both the A and B samples, he said.
The third -- on July 6 -- was negative. "
Not consistent with metabolizing a steroid at detectable levels. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Something extremely weird is going on with this case. Inconsistent. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Can we get some confirmation on what she tested positive for? There are conflicting reports between clenbuterol and a stimulant. Submitted by: mjb
July 24, 2008 excatly distancegirl....
the team leaves friday for singapore and the dealine for replacments was 7/21
either way.. sad story for swimming. Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 [personal attack removed] **** Hey all, please try to keep this civil. I know this is an emotional time, but please keep the discussion and conversations to the topics - not at each other - Jason Marsteller****
Innocent until proven guilty. Why would her samples from July 6th be negative and July 4th be positive? At detectable levels, it would take more than 2 days to metabolize out of her system and both would have turned up positive.
She will probably be reinstated after they determine what is causing the inconsistency. Just putting that out there. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Technically, by chemical classificatin, any -buterol is a steroid. Chemically, it's a steroid. I wouldn't term it as a stimulant. It's a misnomer. It acts primarily as a beta-2 agonist (as you yourself noted).
It's stimulant effects are a side effect and not widely reported.
[personal attack removed] **** Once again, please focus your conversations on the discussion. - Jason Marsteller **** Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 i guess im just a little more critical and deviant minded... cause that to me presents a pattern of trying to cover up quickly...
and yes that is quite common.
lets be done with the speculation and unbridled blinding support for this athelte.
even if CAS says the ruling statys... most likely we will hear "Im not guilty... I swear"
just like many other fallen athletes... sad but true.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 maybe not inconsistent SwimDoc... maybe just got caught and trying to backpeddle quickly.
money and right attorney may not be enough to get her out of this....
: ( Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 Clenbuetrol was the drug named.....
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 From what I'm reading Clen is used in humans as a stimulant; primarily for weight loss or fat burning. In animals its used to build muscle mass. In Omaha there are lots of steak places that buy the prize winning beef from various state fairs, etc. Reports can be found of prize winning animals being illegally treated with Clen. There have been reports of humans reacting (ilness) to meat coming from animals treated with Clen. Is it possible tainted meat is the culprit?
Or am I just dreaming? Submitted by: PRHJD
July 24, 2008 not speculation... it was clen... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 she did not test positive for a stimulant... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 Hey all,
I just updated the story with the following:
In a later update, the Associated Press reported that "Hardy's attorney, Howard Jacobs, confirmed to NBC News that the former Cal star tested positive for the banned stimulant clenbuterol." Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 24, 2008 I realize now from a reliable source that it was the drug named, I'm just saying that the drug test results were inconsistent with how that drug would be metabolized. As in if it were there on the 4th, it would most likely ALSO be there on the 6th.
This is boring. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 thnx jason... nice job on a difficult issue and stroy
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 "Hardy has never tested positive before. Her swims at World Champs are not in question. People are acting like this negates anything she has ever done or will do. I disagree."
That's like saying Marion Jones's results from Sydney aren't in question.
EPO is detectable maybe up to a day. With certain drugs athletes can EASILY test negative two days later. Particularly if they took a drug the day before the test they failed, which means it was on the way out anyway. Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 24, 2008 Still nothing on the USA Swimming Website. Somebody's got to be at their desk in Colorado by now. Submitted by: prhjd
July 24, 2008 input and insight?
CLENBUTEROL: Here's what happens in simple words: The purpose with cardio workout is to keep your heart rate on a higher level. The longer you can keep your heart rate elevated, the better you will burn fat with your workout. The Clenbuterol increases the heart rate without workout. Of course, ANY workout will add greatly to the effect, but even if you do not workout, the Clen will show results. The second factor is that Clenbuterol raises your body's temperature slightly, forcing the body to burn fat for this process. Clenbuterol has a distinct fat-burning effect. Due to the higher body temperature the protein processing is increased.
The dosages should be adjusted a bit higher or lower, depending on each individuals wellbeing.
Start taking the Clenbuterol with one tab a day, then add another tab every few days, until you reach the maximum, that should be 3-4 tabs/day. Stay on that highest dosage some time before tapering down again gradually. Spread the tabs over the day, but don't take any tabs after 6pm to avoid insomnia. During a week, you should always have 1 or 2 days OFF the tabs, so your body can recover.
The total cycle duration should not be longer than 2-3 weeks so your body will not adjust to the effects. Then take a break for the same time. Please employ a healthy diet and regular workout. For the best results, Clenbuterol can be stacked together, or alternated with the T3/T4 Cytomel Mix
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 Tainted meat would not be the culprit. Clen is not approved for use in the US in the meat industry and the USDA/FDA tightly regulates meat on the market. Submitted by: distancegirl
July 24, 2008 We will post whatever response USA Swimming has in full whenever it is made available. I'm sure they are busy in California right now, along with getting ready to leave. Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 24, 2008 more...
How to Take Clenbuterul
Clenbuterul hydrochloride comes as a tablet, 0.02 mg., to take by mouth.
Common dosage of Clenbuterul is 5-7 tablets, 100-140 mcg per day. For women 80-100 mcg/day are usually sufficient. It is important to begin by taking only one tablet on the first day and then increasing the dosage by one tablet each of the following days until the desired maximum dosage is reached.
Athletes have made a habit of cycling Clenbuterul in an effort to minimize side effects as well as prevent receptor downgrade. Average cycle length on Clenbuterul is 6-10 weeks with a 4-6 week off period. There are also those who suggest a two days on, two days off cyclus and there are strong evidence this method will minimize the side effects of taking Clenbuterul. There are, though, no evidence the method is the most efficient in terms of fat loss.
There are also suggestions of using Clenbuterul in a two week on, two week off pattern, which makes sense when taking the characteristics, especially the long 35 hour half-time, of the compound in consideration. Tapering is not needed but can be suitable for some in order to avoid a possible "crash" period.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 A weight lifting forum is NOT a scientific (citable) source.
LOL Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 All of this is entirely speculation at this point. When she goes to the doctor's office she takes the banned list with her every time to make sure she is not prescribed anything that is not allowed. This is very hurtful to her and her family. It will take a couple of weeks to resolve so let's not be mean spirited. Submitted by: anon
July 24, 2008 wasnt trying to be scientific... just informing as to the "real life" side of how the drug is being used by celebs, athletes and everyday people.... Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 i agree. People are so quick to think they know what's going on. The details do not add up here and only time will tell. Unfortunately, we do not have time in this particular case.
Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Ok but the drug tests have to be scientific to prove her guilty. One roid-popping muscle head who can't take the time to spell out "oh" cannot be used a credible source of information to be disseminated to an impressionable public.
Don't contribute to the mass hysteria surrounding athlete's drug use by supplying unreliable anecdotal information. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 i agree anon... no claims, allegations or denials here...
and certainly no mean spirts.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 mass hysteria??? lol really???
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 omgshhh i can't believe jessica hardy would do something like this! is there any way she could test positive w/out taking the substance? like could the test have gotten screwed up somehow? Submitted by: swimfreak
July 24, 2008 She tested positive on A *AND* B samples. Isn't that scientific enough? Inadvertant or not, athletes are responsible. Sucks to be her. No excuses. Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 24, 2008 Does the Name Jessica Foschi ring any bells....
there is always a chance of incompetence and conspiracy...
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 The article above says:
"More damaging, however, would be her lack of contributions in relay duty."
I'd say more damaging is that the US may have a dirty swimmer -- not that we lose some advantage in the relays! If that was an advantage that wasn't ethical, then we don't need it. Think about the folks that were on the 2004 relay with Marion Jones - even though they didn't do anything wrong themselves, their relay medals are no longer valid.
Submitted by: Splish_Splash
July 24, 2008 She tested negative on July first (both A and B samples), she tested positived on July 4th (both A and B samples) then again tested negative on July 6th (both A and B samples)
So no, you obviously didn't read the entire article or others on the internet concerning her actual drug results. It is inconsistent with chemical metabolism as I've said before (improbable, not impossible) for her to have had the drug in her body on the 4th but not on the 6th.
READ. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Yes, mass hysteria. As in people latch on to any potential scandal with a death grip and it's not even been to arbitration yet. The sport does not need random use accounts from weight lifting forums. For those who do not have enough education to understand the situation, they are likely to believe anything you tell them. Be more responsible than to fan the flames until we know what is going on. It's just ridiculous. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 USADA, WADA, USA Swimming rules say: 1. The athlete is responsible for what they put in their bodies. 2. They are responsible to know what's in what they put in their bodies. 3. They are liable for a doping violation if they test positive (A&B). 4. An inadvertent ingestion of a doping agent is not an excuse--it may be a reason for a lighter penalty. Submitted by: swimnj
July 24, 2008 So better off to be spoon fed information and ideas. No one is "fanning" any flames here doc...
just debate and discussion... completely legal and healthy for our sport.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 I have no opinions or answers yet, just questions:
1)Does Hardy have asthma? Any chance she wsa precribed some clenbuterol, used in foregin countries for asthma, by mistake instead of Albuterol while on a recent international meet? Or, since it's related to Albuterol which is legal in the inhaled form with doc's note, is it possible that the test picked up Clenbuterol instead of Albuterol?
2)Was she ever know to use fat-burners and has Clenbuterol, popular as a fatburner (though not proven to work) ever been picked up in OTC fatburners claiming not to contain stimulants but do (since they not FDA controlled with the exception of ephedrine as far as I know)? This would be analogous to Kicker Vencills poz test for a steroid found in traces in a supplement that wasn't known to contain them.
3)As far as the negative-positive-negative test, I read that urine excretion of clenbuterol in horses was "prolonged and irregular". Is the same true of humans and if so, would that also cause irregular blood tests, or only urine?
Thanks Submitted by: liquidassets
July 24, 2008 I've been reading the comments with great interest; Lara Jackson is my daughter. I hope Jessica Hardy is not guilty and is re-instated after appeal and if she has inadvertantly injested tainted food, my heart goes out to her and her family. My biggest problem with this story is how USAswimming has handled it. If the original positive test was from July 4th, why didn't officials name Lara, Tara Kirk and Amanda Weir to the team pending final determanation. The roster was not full and the I don't understand why these three swimmers could not have been brought to camp pending Jessica's appeal. In business, you hope for the best but you plan for the worst. I don't know all the rules, but it seems to me this could have been handled better. Submitted by: kaj
July 24, 2008 Hmm that is a good question from the parent of Lara Jackson. It makes me wonder if it is not possible per the rules to add swimmers to the roster in that manner and then remove them again, or maybe that would then open US Swimming to legal challenges if they have too many swimmers for the same event. But I do think it's a question they should answer honestly. I also would like to reply to whomever was implying racism/xenophobia in comparing reaction to this story vs. the Chinese male backstroker: Naturally the Hardy story is garnering more interest on this forum since this website is for a company based in the U.S.A. But also, China has now been shown to have had at least pockets of systematic doping in the past, whereas athletes testing positive in the U.S., especially the most elite ones, have been isolated cases. So fairly or not, it's only natural to suspect the Chinese a little more, especially with the recent documentary that came out about some docs there being involved with experimenting with gene doping, etc. Submitted by: liquidassets
July 24, 2008 I'm with Swim MD and swimnj. Bottom line is something was in her system that was performance enhancing. Giving Jessica the benefit of the doubt, which she deserves, I'm sure no one is more horrified than she is - the fact she non-intentionally possibly took someone else's spot to Beijing on July 4th must be a crushing concept. Jessica is no sudden wunderkind bursting onto the scene, nor is she swimming significantly faster well past her physical peak.
She will pay dearly for the July 4th test, but let's not crucify her before the story plays out. Kicker Vincill is evidence enough that it could have been inadvertant (which doesn't get her off the hook), and as SwimMD says, the inconsistency of the test is initially concerning, and once the levels of the July 4th positive test are known, the possibility of hijinks will be more assessable.
Relax everyone. Take a deep breath, and listen to yet-to-be-revealed facts before fanning the flames of hysteria. Submitted by: 96Gold
July 24, 2008 VERY interesting update for anyone interested. The supplement company who Hardy endorses and had on their website (where it went into such detail as "what Jessica takes") has completely stricken swimming from their website as a listed sport it endorses and all mention of Hardy is gone (it was all still there last night and early this morning). And so it goes. The culprit just wipes the slate clean and goes on about it's business. After all, the general public from whom they make the most money won't be any the wiser will they? Disgusting.
If you look at the sites that describe Clenbuterol and what it can do and then visit her "supplement sponsors" website (will tactfully leave the product out here) and if you were still able to look at what "Jessica takes" and go to the "Muscle Strength" product, anyone notice that maybe these two descriptions look sort of similar? It would be a darn shame if it was once again a case of a gullible athlete taking something from a company who really doesn't care what goes into it's products if it increases the bottom line. Be interesting to see where this goes. Anyway you slice it, if it's a tainted supplement or a mistake in taking a cold remedy she shouldn't have or flat out doping, it is a sad day and I feel bad for all the other USA swimmers right now because it always casts a pall over things. Just a darn shame.
But my anger rises when supplement companies may (and let's presume innocence until the truth comes out) have played a role. When are these athletes going to learn? Don't put this crap in your body....no matter how much money they want to pay you. You simply can not trust them. Submitted by: rcoach
July 24, 2008 so does this mean we have to put our heads down on our desk??? lol
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 It's impossible in this country to eat meat so contaminated with drugs that an athlete could test positive. PERIOD. Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 24, 2008 I agree with Lara's dad, USA swimming handled this poorly if they have been waiting all this time to deal with the situation. They should have added the alternates to the roster as a precaution until the situation is/was sorted out. Whether or not this "doping situation" turns out to be true, other swimmers will be denied the honor to compete for their country in a swimmer's biggest dream----the Olympics, because the situation was pushed aside until now. Submitted by: distancegirl
July 24, 2008 JeffyFit:
Well I believed in the tooth fairy longer than most kids in my neighborhood too. I just want to cling to some hope that she wasn't cheating, that there is some other explanation. Submitted by: prhjd
July 24, 2008 Definitely an interesting development about the supplement company. Another reason not to trust anything that is not FDA inspected and approved. They are not reliable. The possibility of internal chemical reactions in the product itself or metabolic biproducts which are illegal is too great it seems.
It is definitely shady of the [company] to remove all association with Jessica Hardy when they should be doing an evaluation of their own product line and taking responsibility for potentially causing Hardy's violation.
As for Lara Jackson's family...I'm sure that WADA didn't have the results from the July 4th tests earlier or they probably would have nominated her for the team. Unfortunate because she had one hell of a meet. Heart goes out to you guys. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Hey all,
Jeff Commings just provided me with some background information on Angel Martino, who is the last American to be removed from an Olympic team for a positive test.
Also wanted to make sure Jeff and John Lohn were credited for helping with the original article as well. Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 24, 2008 Thanks SwimMD...the part I found most interesting was the deletion of swimming period. I can understand getting Hardy off the site for obvious reasons at present, but to take our sport completely out of their list was striking. And this is a product that is being used widely by swimmers right now. My worry is that if this company has gone into 'defense' mode to save it's butt (if there is something in their products they are sliding in) that this might not be the last positive we see (not all may be Americans mind you). But I agree with you SwimMD completely, unless you know it's FDA approved, why even touch it? Just dumb, dumb, dumb if it turns out to be a supplement taint. Submitted by: rcoach
July 24, 2008 the sport was not taken off completly. it is under water sports and it was last week too. never was swimming listed as a sport. also, she is still on the pdf as an endorser. furthermore, larsen is still listed Submitted by: onehandtoucher
July 24, 2008 If indeed the supplements Jessica was 'endorsing' are the culprit - a la Kicker Vencil, it will take more time than we have, before the Olympic swim competition starts, to figure this out.
I hope that someone is collecting bottles of the stuff RIGHT NOW (before there is a chance to change the formula) so that if guilty, the company can eventually be nailed for this.
Such a sad situation for the swimmers involved. Submitted by: Get the Info
July 24, 2008 rcoach,
I'm sure you are aware of USA swimmings advice on supplements: DON'T TAKE THEM.
At my last trip to the OTC at least, we were reminded yet again that USA swimming recommends that no supplements be used since their absolute purity cannot be assured. They are not subject to strict regulations since they are not FDA evaluated and thus cross contamination or just shoddy chemistry is always a present threat.
It is still her fault if it turns out to be a supplement problem, and it *should* serve as due warning about risk with supplements!
Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 the french elite swimmers can have their suplements tested by the french federation with the help of the french anti dopping agency if they want to take suplements so i thougth that the usa swimming federation would be providing the same service as the french federation. Submitted by: maly
July 24, 2008 Even if they test a supplement, it does not guarantee that all batches of the supplement would remain clean. You would effectively have to have each shipment of supplement tested and then that still would not guarantee against the potential for illegal metabolites being produced once the supplement is taken by the athlete. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Sorry, onehandtoucher, but you are wrong on this. As of last night, if you looked on the side bar where you could click for sports, swimming had it's own link. I was on the site and it was there. I did not look under water sports. Maybe the swimming link is still up there under that heading, but there was definitely a swimming heading yesterday.
Submitted by: rcoach
July 24, 2008 you can still find her endorsement page with a little googling
https://www.advocare.com/070929/Products/Endorsers/EndorserBio.aspx?id=168509
[hey all, let's try not to put people's names to drugs, even as ways of hoping they don't get connected. once you get that out there, you can't wash it away.] Submitted by: jmswimmer
July 24, 2008 The half life of clenbuterol is 36-39 hours. (Source: Wikipedia) How is it possible that a sample taken on July 4th is positive, but a sample taken on July 6th is negative? 48 hours later, there should still have been significant clenbuterol in her system. Submitted by: cuttlefish
July 24, 2008 Just curious if anyone remembers back to Angel Martino's poz result in '88 and her claim that it was her birth control pill Ortho-Novum that was somehow metabolizing down to Nandralone. Any research ever done into that claim of hers? I thought I remember a doctor at that time as being quoted as saying that she would have had to have take ENORMOUS amounts of those birth control pilss to equal the amount to the levels of the Nandralone in her sytem. Didn't know if anyone knows if her claim was looked into legitimately through science. Submitted by: Park528
July 24, 2008 SwimMD
I read in a few publications that the half life for clenbuterol is inordinately long compared to other substances that have stimulant effects. This publication says 36-39 hours: http://www.bionity.com/lexikon/e/Clenbuterol. Doesn't the persistence of the drug cast doubt on the positive negative positive tests in and of itself? Submitted by: swimmer1488
July 24, 2008 jessica's information hasn't just been taken down by the advocare website, but speedo's website. i suppose we should evaluate their company for putting PEDs in their suits?
do you know how many athletes (specifically swimmers) use advocare's products?? you would see MANY MANY positive test results if there was anything in advocare that was illegal. Submitted by: lizzardlover
July 24, 2008 This is just awful for the families involved and for the sport. I too have a few questions of interest, first to SwimMD per this comment:
"It is inconsistent with chemical metabolism as I've said before (improbable, not impossible) for her to have had the drug in her body on the 4th but not on the 6th.
READ.
Submitted by: SwimMD"
Swim MD: what is the standard pathway period for this type of drug going through the body? Your point seems to that the exit path for the drug to be detected in the system is more than 2 days. What is normal?
It also strikes me as terribly odd that the test two days prior was clean, the test on the 4th was not and then the test on the 6th was clean once more for a drug seemingly most noted as a weight loss drug. I've never known of world class swimmers being worried about looking fat. I'm an advocate of the athlete until proven otherwise, and what I plainly cannot look past is why July 4th and not before and not after? This was an 8 day meet wherein she competed in several events over the eight days. She made the team in the 50 free on the final day of the meet on the 6th testing clean that day.
Also, while conspiracy theories might not be welcome in this room, is there ANY chance this was the wrong sample or a tainted sample? Were the drug tests at Trials done in a lab on-site or outsourced to a clinical lab? Given the weeks between the July 4th test and the results from a few days ago I'd be inclined to guess the drug tests were outsourced and and conducted remotely.
We had the unfortunate experience of having one of our children in the hospital for a protracted period once and had the horrifying experience of a bloodtest coming back with bad results which were inconsistent with a prior test. It turns out that the in hospital lab made a mistake and had the wrong sample (IN HOSPITAL not outsourced). The sample and test immediately subsequent to it thankfully validated the incorrect result. This was at the best research hospitals in the world.
It can happen and let's not all suffer fools gladly to believe otherwise.
Unfortunately for athletes you can test clean one day, positive two days later, and then clean again two days following and it is still a bad result.
Most important, I truly hope that some accord comes of this for each of the swimmers involved and their families which are affected. Submitted by: Jim
July 24, 2008 Cuttlefish, I guesss if she somehow ingested it right after the July 1st test, a small amount could have been picked up in the 7/4 test but be completely gone by the 7/6 test.
That was interesting what SwimMD said about the OTC recommendation re: no supplements. Even the possibility of a scenario that she may have gone against such a recommendation and been inadvertently doped by a supplement from one of her own sponsors makes me reflect that, although on balance I think professional swimming is good for the sport overall, this new era in swimming is going to have an adjustment period and some conflicts while athletes figure out what's best purely for their swimming vs. what's best for their professional careers. (The Vendt/TYR swimsuit lawsuit/controversy comes to mind as well). Submitted by: liquidassets
July 24, 2008 That list of supplements she was taking is quite "impressive." Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 Her test results were actually neg-pos-neg. Which is even more inconsistent with the drugs half-life, I'd say.
After looking at the ingredients in the list of advocare products she was taking, I'm not surprised she tested positive for a -buterol.
Does she take salbutamol/albuterol for asthma? Anybody know? that could readily be converted to a compound that would be detected as clen. They are very chemically similar.
Just like a pharmacists check for drug interactions between various prescriptions, supplements can similarly interact in a biological system to produce side-products.
Whether it's responsible or not, I wouldn't in 100 years put that list of "stuff" into my body. NO WAY. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 re: Clenbuterol metabolism. It would be distributed in the blood into her body's tissues. It's largely non-polar and would cross directly into target cells--cells with a beta receptor. It would linger and possibly accumulate in the liver and kidneys. What is not metabolized ends up excreted in the urine. So the likelihood of bio-accumulation would lead to prolonged urinary excretion (and probably even presence in the blood samples as well) and not just along the half-life of the drug (even longer).
As far as the chance she ingested it on July 1st after the test, it could have been out by the 6th, sure. But one dose of the drug would have little effect on her performance which begs the question "why risk it?" if she knew what she was doing.
Sketchy. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 As per my post above she takes very special care to show the list to her doctors to ensure she is not prescribed anything illegal. Her team are trying to figure out themselves how on earth this could have happened. Her main defence is in the two negative tests. Submitted by: anon
July 24, 2008 SwimMD I had asked the same question about whether she used alubterol and speculated re: cross reactivity on the tests; but I'm not sure. If so, and she had permission to take it, wouldn't that clear her, since asthmatics can use the inhaled form with proper permission/medical authorization? I was actually hoping this was the case, because she'd have a chance, unlike the inadvertent doping from supplement scenario. However, if she was using meds for asthma, I think we would have heard about it by now, unfortunately. Submitted by: liquidassets
July 24, 2008 Way back in this discussion Cobber, to demonstrate his point, cited some swimmers who might cause spectators to be suspicious of, perhaps because of their surprising performances or looks and he used Christine Magnuson as one of his three examples. This is outrageous! Anyone familiar with Illinois High School swimming who knows about her accomplishments back then and her gradual improvement in college competing for Tenn. over a four year period leading up to her first place win in the 100 yard fly at this years' NCAA Div. I Championships, would know that she does not fit into that category at all. She is also an excellent freestyler. In high school most of her high placing All American performances were in the 100 and 200 yard freestyle events but she was always an excellent flyer.
Natalie Coughlin, who has the American record in the 100 meter fly chose not to compete in the event. This left the event more wide open. Christine was seeded 4th. Rachel Komisarz is 31 and was seeded first. Usually it is more difficult for a swimmer over 30 to be consistently at their best all the time. Dana Vollmer was seeded second but Christine beat her in the 100 yard fly at the NCAAs. Mary Descenza was seeded third but for many years she has been a little better in the 200m fly. Elaine Breeden was seeded fifth and also trailed Magnuson in the NCAAs.. Sixth seed was Samantha Woodward. Second through 6th place all had seed times in the 58s and clearly overlapped. Breeden and Magnuson fortunately peaked at the right time. Magnuson swam a time of 57.50 in the semis, not far off the American record. and Breeden swam 58.04. They were the one - two seeds for the finals on the second day. That is how they finished. Christine Magnuson is one of many talented six foot sprinters who have made steady progress over a long period of time. It has been fun watching her develop over the years. Last summer in the Nationals Komisarz was first, 58.04, Vollmer was second 58.48 and Magnuson was 3rd, 58.76. When you add the new faster swim suits into the mix, her semi time, though it was a personal best, was not an unbelievable drop. She is also an excellent relay swimmer and I hope she swims as well at the Olympics and can hold on to the fly leg in the relay.
Submitted by: swimcomments2
July 24, 2008 OK, guys, this whole "women aren't supposed to be cut" comment is really starting to annoy me. I have always had a well-defined, muscular build and even at 45, I can eat what I want (which isn't junk food) and I still have 14 percent body fat and all I do is eat healthy and exercise often and my genetics takes care of the rest. And I haven't had a sex change either (ha, ha).
You can't judge a book by its cover nor a female swimmer by her guns (biceps)! Submitted by: susandc
July 24, 2008 regarding her taking a list to the doctor:
Regardless of whether or not anything in her supplements was illegal, it does not preclude the chance that, once ingested, they react with each other to PRODUCE illegal metabolites. Please read my comments CLOSELY.
Chemicals, when mixed, react. Supplement interactions are not strenuously studied since they are not suspect to the same scrutiny as FDA approved substances. You simply cannot be sure what you're getting with a supplement OR what's going to happen once you ingest several different supplements concomitantly. Submitted by: SwimMD
July 24, 2008 If Jessica had pulled out of the Trials after the 100 Breastroke, her best event, she would be going to the Olympics without controversy, since her first sample came back negative. Why risk her two best chances at a medal (with the 4x100 medley) and take a banned substance to help qualify for the 4x100 free relay? It was very possible she would not have made finals in the 100 free. Doesn't make sense. She was already on the team. She had already realized her dream.
Submitted by: trk
July 24, 2008 Does anyone have an understanding as to HOW Jessica will be proven guilty or innocent before the start of the swimming? Is she officially removed from the team? Is there enough time to clear her name - or not? Lastly, where is Jessica???? Is she back home? What are the odds of swimming in Beijing???
Does anyone have answers????? Submitted by: paddles
July 24, 2008 She can pursue appeals with the American Arbitration Association and the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Any ruling by CAS is final and binding.
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 odss may not be good.
here is just some basic info...
Generally speaking, a dispute may be submitted to the CAS only if there is an arbitration agreement between the parties which specifies recourse to the CAS. Currently, all Olympic International Federations but one, and many National Olympic Committees, have recognised the jurisdiction of the CAS and included in their statutes an arbitration clause referring disputes to it.
Its arbitrators are all high level jurists and it is generally held in high regard in the international sports community
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 Just a heads up that I'm about to call it a night. So, feel free to post - but they won't be updated until the morning.
We also just posted a response from Dave Salo. Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 24, 2008 again... thnx and good job jason
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 JUST A QUICK FYI FOR THE END OF THE DAY....
"Don Catlin, former director of the Olympic testing lab at the University of California at Los Angeles, said any amount of clenbuterol in a urine sample is illegal. He said it was possible for Ms. Hardy to have a positive test between two negative tests because the drug has a half-life of 35 to 40 hours, and users can time dosages to the tests and hope the drug will no longer be in their system."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121695389430683711.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Submitted by: Dist Freak
July 24, 2008 It's Jessica's fault, no one elses.
End of story. Submitted by: WEK5000
July 24, 2008 JESSICA HARDY is INNOCENT! PERIOD. I know the truth. I know the details. I know she has never used banned substances and will and would never intend to "cheat". Jessica Hardy is the most trustworthy person and if all of you people actually knew her, you would know that she did not and would not cheat. I hope all of you who have made negative comments against Jessica and have made assumptions should feel ashamed. EVERYONE should know the MEDIA always goes out of their way to take successful people down. Everyone you will eventually hear the truth sooner or later, it's just a matter of time and unfortunate that the truth cannot be justified already! Submitted by: LongBeach562
July 24, 2008 I don't understand why people think it's odd it was neg-pos-neg?
Athletes who cheat tend to know something about what they are doing.
So, you take it early enough before the 100 breast that it clears. You win, get tested, you're good.
You take it right after that test, hoping it will be gone and clear before finals of the next event. But maybe, she took too much or too late.. maybe she was out celebrating too long and forgot and took it next morning. Oops, didn't clear in time. Tested, fails test.
For third test, repeat "in the clear" procedure from like in test uno... passes.
I find it really really odd people want to bash cheaters and come down on them when there's nothing in the news but as soon as its one of our own... man... stay back, be calm, it must all be a misunderstanding.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. Submitted by: JeffyFit
July 25, 2008 Interested article from the OC Register regarding her supplements
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/olympics-jessica-hardy-2104227-hardy-clenbuterol Submitted by: mjb
July 25, 2008 Any ideas how much of a black eye this gives USA Swimming heading into the Games with two of the biggest names as far as potential medal possibilities (Phelps and Hoff) leading the headlines?
And Yes, Jason, thank you for doing such a wonderful job keeping up with the comments. You deserve a long vacation after this one! Submitted by: paddles
July 25, 2008 Hey everyone,
We have a new article up about Jessica Hardy, based on the Orange County Register article that mjb posted.
I'm going to ask that continued conversation be moved to that article at http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/18623.asp
I will not be approving anymore comments on this thread.
Thanks! Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
July 24, 2009 Hardy's American record happened before her positive test, and she tested clean during the 100 breast where she set the 30.53 time during U.S. Olympic Trials if I remember correctly.
Therefore, her 30.53 is the national mark until Jendrick's time is confirmed. Submitted by: Jason Marsteller
Reaction Time responses do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions
of Swimming World Magazine or SwimmingWorldMagazine.com.
Reaction Time is provided as a service to our readers.
|
Photo By: Peter H. Bick
Subscribe Now!
|
