{"id":462903,"date":"2021-02-24T11:00:30","date_gmt":"2021-02-24T18:00:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.swimmingworldmagazine.com\/news\/?p=462903"},"modified":"2021-02-24T13:54:41","modified_gmt":"2021-02-24T20:54:41","slug":"terence-ma-former-vp-of-usa-water-polo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.swimmingworldmagazine.com\/news\/terence-ma-former-vp-of-usa-water-polo\/","title":{"rendered":"Terence Ma, Former VP of USA Water Polo, Reflects on Leadership"},"content":{"rendered":"

In unraveling how USA Water Polo\u2019s current leadership\u2014including Board Chair Michael Graff<\/strong> and CEO Christopher Ramsey<\/strong>\u2014have dominated U.S. polo for the past 15 years, the thread leads to Terence Ma<\/strong>. Second in command to former USAWP President Rich Foster, Ma was bounced out of the organization in 2007 and has not been involved with American water polo since.<\/p>\n

In a wide-ranging interview with Swimming World<\/em>, Ma says this was not by choice. He describes being a devoted volunteer who spent thousands on travel and lodging to fulfill his responsibilities as USAWP vice-president at a time (2001-06) when the organization was a fraction of its current size. He helped draft a new set of bylaws at the urging of the United States Olympic Committee\u2014not because USAWP was in dire need of a makeover, but due to a drive by the USOC to migrate national governing bodies [NGB] for individual Olympic sports from volunteer-run organizations to professionally-managed entities.<\/p>\n

\"Ma_Einstein\"

Terence Ma<\/p><\/div>\n

Ma details that term limits in the reformed USAWP were intended to be two quads (eight years)\u2014a restriction that Graff and his board have circumvented. When he finishes his fourth quad this coming June, Graff will have served so long due to an extension in 2012<\/a> and modification of the USAWP bylaws in 2017.<\/p>\n

Now a medical education and IT consultant in the Northeast, Ma has stayed out of the disputes which have roiled the organization since last October, when the Orange County Register reported<\/a> that Ramsey and Cristy Sicard<\/strong>, Senior Director, Membership & SafeSport Compliance, had been named as defendants in a civil lawsuit against Bahram Hojreh<\/strong>. Unlike a number of prominent coaches, former national team athletes and USAWP members who have criticized leadership for its actions in regard to Hojreh, a former age group coach in SoCal accused of multiple counts of sexual abuse against former players, Ma has a different grievance. At last month\u2019s USAWP General Assembly, the organization’s biannual gathering of board members, senior leaders and regional officials, both Ma and former USAWP President Rich Foster<\/strong> believe that their efforts in the earlier part of this century were unfairly\u2014and inaccurately\u2014criticized by Graff.<\/p>\n

[Water Polo Olympians Start Petition Demanding Removal of USA Water Polo CEO, Board Chairman<\/em><\/a>]<\/p>\n

It\u2019s not the first time Foster has felt this way but, as Ma details below, things have gotten personal. In accusing his predecessors of self-dealing, conflicts of interest and leaving the parent organization heavily in debt\u2014and by not acknowledging their contributions\u2014Graff may have unnecessarily poked a hornets\u2019 nest just as his tenure is ending.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

– What\u2019s challenging to grasp is why USAWP leadership\u2014including you and Rich Foster, the USAWP president\u2014decided in 2006 to rewrite the organization\u2019s by-laws, create a new structure and transition to an entirely new board.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

When I first started with USA Water Polo and got more involved, it was essentially a volunteer organization. Our professional staff was the executive director and a couple of people in an office helping him. At that time, Bruce Wigo<\/strong><\/a> was the executive director. After I became vice president, Bruce and Rich Foster had a falling out, and Bruce decided to step down.<\/p>\n

By the way, in those days, Rich\u2019s position was president. We didn\u2019t have a chairman. It was a president, a vice president, a secretary and a treasurer\u2014those were the four elected positions.<\/p>\n

Bruce was an employee of the organization. Essentially everyone else was a volunteer. He had a few people who worked for him. Under Rich\u2019s administration we set up the office in Colorado Springs. That\u2019s where we had a small staff\u2014I think there were three people in that office. Bruce was based primarily in Florida.<\/p>\n

Bruce \u201cretired\u201d<\/a> [in 2003] so we hired Tom Seitz<\/strong>, through a process that Rich ran, to be the next executive director.<\/p>\n

After a year, it was clear that Seitz was not working out. Two of us, Al Frowiss<\/strong>, then Zone Chair for San Diego, and I were dispatched by the executive committee to terminate Seitz. This took place on March 8, 2006. Since we did not have a termination for cause in Seitz\u2019s contract, we had to pay him for the rest of the quad. Angie Birchler<\/strong> was the Assistant Director of USA Water Polo based in Colorado Springs.<\/p>\n

During this, much of which Rich ran, we went through a process to rewrite the bylaws as mandated in 2005 by the USOC. So, we held off against hiring a new executive director, especially as it was coming right before the USWP Assembly where the new bylaws were to be adopted.<\/p>\n

Under Rich, we had gotten Los Alamitos as a national training center. Prior to that we had never had a national training center. A lot of the national training took place in the Newport High School pool because Bill Barnett<\/strong><\/a> and long-time team manager, Barbara Kalbus<\/strong>, ran everything out of the Newport Beach pool.<\/p>\n

We decided that we needed to have a more formalized training center, so that\u2019s why we got the one in Los Alamitos. We raised money and did a lot for that.<\/p>\n

– How did the USOC get involved in changing the structure of USA Water Polo?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

The USOC mandated certain changes to all governing bodies in 2005, not just water polo. My memory is that we were complimented by the USOC for being the first organization to take them up on the challenge to change to a more professionally-based structure. At the 2006 Annual Meeting, I chaired the Board of Delegates meeting which passed the new bylaws. I ran that meeting\u2014and wrote myself out of a job.<\/p>\n

\"USAWP_old_logo\"My disappointment had to do with the fact that in the traditional process, I would probably have been elected president for the next cycle. I was looking forward to going to the Olympics because that would have been my only shot at going. Before that, at my own expense I had already been to all sorts of senior and junior water polo world championships, Pan American championships, and swimming world championships as a representative of water polo. I had gone to world university games at my own expense.<\/p>\n

I hosted FINA games\u2014I organized and hosted an international tournament on behalf of the U.S. men\u2019s water polo team in Hong Kong. I had already done a lot of those things as vice-president and I hoped to go to the Olympics as the next president of USA Water Polo. But it didn\u2019t happen. We changed bylaws and I was out of a job.<\/p>\n

– Bryan Weaver and Mike Scofield were identified as members of the transition committee which migrated USAWP to a new board structure.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

As part of the transition, Foster selected Russ Hafferkamp<\/strong> to chair the committee to help populate the new board. I recommended Bryan Weaver<\/strong>, who had been very much involved with masters [water polo] to be part of the process. I don\u2019t remember all the people on the Committee. Originally, the old Executive Council (Foster, Ma, Kurt Krumpholz, and Alan Cima) was proposed as the Nominating Committee for the new board, but we changed that due to the perception of a conflict of interest.<\/p>\n

Mike Schofield<\/strong> had been Chair of Zone One for ages. And, as coach for [the] Navy men\u2019s team, he was part of the split that occurred when the CWPA formed and all that caused between Bruce and Rich. Mike would have a very good perspective because he was in Zone One and probably knew Mike Graff from before. But, I haven\u2019t spoken to Mike Schofield in years.<\/p>\n

The last secretary was Barbara Kalbus?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

No, the last secretary was Kurt Krumpholz<\/strong>\u2014the father [of J.W. Krumpholz<\/strong>, silver medalist at the 2008 Olympics] And the treasurer was Alan Cima<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

– What do you think of Graff, Ramsey and the job they have done since you left?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

Let me back you up here. The first thing is, I don\u2019t know Mike Graff, I don\u2019t know Chris Ramsey. I\u2019ve never met either of them. I\u2019ve never even talked with them\u2014I was never able to get through to either of them. My only animosity towards them is they never returned any of my phone calls or communications.<\/p>\n

\"USAWP_Revenue_2019\"

USAWP Unrestricted Funds. Graphic Courtesy: USA Water Polo<\/p><\/div>\n

Secondly, based on the graph of the growth of this organization that was shown at the last annual meeting, which is the only one I\u2019ve attended since the one I chaired in 2006, what I\u2019ve seen is remarkable.<\/p>\n

Number three, now that I\u2019ve had more experience in the world and have run a medical school, I can tell you that we were a group of volunteers who dug into our own pockets for everything. To run things we needed to go to a more professional model.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s important, when we [rewrote] the bylaws, one thing we were very concerned about\u2014I don\u2019t have the old bylaws in front of me, they\u2019re stored away somewhere\u2014we absolutely did not want a chairman who would be chair for a long period of time. We thought that the model we had before, which was presidents that had a max of two quads. was an excellent idea.<\/p>\n

That was the model we were looking at\u2014for the volunteer side. For the professional side we wanted to have people who were solidly, we thought that we needed to have a true office, but I don\u2019t remember how we were going to structure that.<\/p>\n

Let me get to some specifics.<\/p>\n

\"USAWP_Revenue_2019

USAWP Financial Data 1988 – 2019. Table Courtesy: USA Water Polo<\/p><\/div>\n

In every slide that was shown at the recent annual meeting, it showed us having a deficit of $600,000 in 2006 for the organization. I have no clue where that $600,000 deficit came from. The most I remember is having a deficit of, is a hundred thousand dollars and that was couple of years prior to that. Alan Cima, the then-treasurer, would have a better memory of this. I wasn\u2019t on any committee that dealt with the money side. Our financial structure was adequate and good enough that we were able to support both a men\u2019s team and a women\u2019s team; the women only got started in time for the 2000 Olympics, which was under our watch.<\/p>\n

The national training center was under our watch, and we were able to make things work.<\/p>\n

The next thing is that, when I was an officer, we never got a suspension letter from the USOC. Now, if it was hidden by Rich, I don\u2019t know. But he says he never saw one. I do remember seeing a letter from the USOC, complimenting us on taking the process of changing the bylaws. They were complimentary to us for having hosted the FINA [World League Super] finals in Long Beach, a couple of other major events and our participation in the world league.<\/p>\n

In my memory everything wasn\u2019t great but we were growing and doing better and better every year. But we needed a more professional organization to support the NGO.<\/p>\n

– I\u2019m not surprised there was an intent to ensure the board chair would not stay on as long as they liked. Which is in fact what happened. Graff liked the gig\u2014he was certainly good at it\u2014and was able to engineer his board and to a certain extent membership to perpetuate his own position. <\/strong><\/h3>\n

Which brings me to the question: why Mike Graff?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

He was selected by Russ Hafferkamp. I have no idea how that happened. My memory is that he was CEO of a manufacturing company\u2014the name that comes up is Bombardier. When you look at USA Water Polo at the time, we were mostly amateurs in the financial world. It was clear we needed solid financial backing and management experience. But California was particularly polarized. We had a lot of strong individuals who considered themselves professional management people.<\/p>\n

In my opinion now, as an experienced manager, I would not consider them as people who would be appropriate for this type of organization.<\/p>\n

\"russ-hafferkamp\"

Russ Hafferkamp. Photo Courtesy: Mark Constantini<\/p><\/div>\n

There was always this tension between Northern California, Southern California and the rest of the country. And these were all people who were all involved in water polo then and there. That\u2019s why we built into the board of directors the idea that we would have people who had not been involved for at least 15 years as members of the board.<\/p>\n

I guess Russ took and ran with this because Mike Graff was someone who was an internationally known administrator of a major organization who had been out of water polo for 15 – 20 years\u2014and presumably neutral.<\/p>\n

Mike was named, my position ended and I never had any more communication from the organization, so I couldn\u2019t tell you what was behind all of that. I was told when we did the original bylaws that I would be named to the board. Somehow or other I was never named to the board and was dropped.<\/p>\n

– I\u2019ve read the term \u201cindependent director\u201d and how it\u2019s meant to designate someone not involved with the sport. Graff has referenced himself as such. It strikes me now as a misnomer but it was (apparently) correct when he was elected.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

One thing you mentioned is that Rich Foster is furious about how he was characterized at the recent assembly.
\n<\/strong><\/h3>\n

Let me set up the background for you. Since 2006\u2014or whenever it was that we went out of office\u2014I had not heard from or had been able to get in touch with Rich since then. Last December, Rich sent me a LinkedIn message: We should get together and talk.<\/p>\n

I sent him a response; he said he\u2019d call the next week. But I never heard from him. Because of your contacting me, and Liz Grimes<\/strong> contacting me through LinkedIn, I became curious about what\u2019s happening with USA Water Polo. I\u2019m a life member and that\u2019s the only way I have any link to USA Water Polo at this point.<\/p>\n

I decided to register for and listen in on the General Assembly that was broadcast. After listening to part of Mike Graff talk, I was steaming hot. I was furious.<\/p>\n

The next day, or maybe a day after that, Rich Foster called me.\u00a0 He told me he too was furious; he\u2019s thinking about suing. I said to him: I agree! I\u2019m furious too!<\/p>\n

[A Moment of Truth at the USA Water Polo General Assembly?<\/em><\/a>]<\/p>\n

The comments that made us angry is that there was self-dealing. There wasn\u2019t any self-dealing to my knowledge. That there was graft; what graft? He was talking about how we were suspended by the USOC, we weren\u2019t suspended by the USOC! The $600,000 deficit\u2014that wasn\u2019t under our watch. The letter from an accounting company that [USAWP] was no longer a going concern. That wasn\u2019t under our watch\u2014it wasn\u2019t something that I ever saw, and I saw all that documentation.<\/p>\n

All of that was alleged to [before Graff\u2019s] coming in\u2014and that would have been Rich Foster and me. I was furious about that. And Rich was too. I can only speak for myself; I was not receiving an income and yet I spent close to $200,000 the final two years of my administration at USA Water Polo just on travel, hotel costs and a variety of other [expenses]- car rentals and other things I was not reimbursed for.<\/p>\n

– Do you look back on the organization you left in 2006 and what you now know of USAWP and see that the changes were ultimately beneficial?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

Just to put in context, I grew up in Southern California, and when I left to college in 1976, since then I\u2019ve lived in California two years\u2014and that was eight years ago. Other than that, I\u2019ve lived all across the country.<\/p>\n

\"foster_Jan21\"

Rich Foster. Photo Courtesy: R. Foster<\/p><\/div>\n

During my time in water polo, [the sport] has always been California-centric. There were spots in the country like the Northeast, Chicago, St. Louis and Florida that always had water polo. Texas has always had water polo, particularly in the Houston area. Boys\u2019 water polo has always been there and has been strong for a very long time. The Dallas Water Polo Club has been very strong there for a long time.<\/p>\n

The Linehans have always been involved. Jim Linehan Sr.<\/strong>\u2014the father\u2014was the secretary during my first term as vice-president. He was secretary before Kurt Krumpholz.<\/p>\n

Our challenge had always been how to grow water polo outside California. It\u2019s always been difficult, and part of that is how the CWPA came to be. When you look at our structure then, I\u2019ll just say we were a volunteer group doing whatever it could to make things happen. Under Rich\u2019s leadership we did some things to make [our operation] more professional\u2014though I would argue that some of the idea were big successes, somewhere terrible failures.<\/p>\n

But at least we started that process.<\/p>\n

The USOC mandating a different structure to the organization put us on the path to be much more professional, and what I see of the materials occasionally crossing my email is that the organization has become [that].<\/p>\n

We made Guy Baker<\/strong> the Olympic lead for all our national teams and he started the Olympic development (ODP) pathway. While we were in the administration, we hired Ratko Rudic<\/strong>, the best-known water polo coach in the world to be our men\u2019s national team coach. Things didn\u2019t work out with Ratko but he was the coach.<\/p>\n

[Swimming World Presents \u201cLessons with the Legends: Water Polo Coach Ratko Rudic\u201d<\/em><\/a>]<\/p>\n

We had dreams of being a great organization, but we didn\u2019t have the mechanism or the support. I recognize now in hindsight we didn\u2019t have the behind the scenes support to make it happen.<\/p>\n

\"ratko-rudic=pro-recco-may20\"

Ratko Rudic, Pro Recco’s coach. Photo Courtesy: Pro Recco<\/p><\/div>\n

What it seems to me is\u2014from what I\u2019m seeing of USA Water Polo\u2014we now have that in place. This is from a few passing glances, so I don\u2019t know it to be absolutely true.<\/p>\n

What would have been concern to me is the size of the board that [the organization] has now expanded to. You don\u2019t get good decisions from such a large board. Our board in the past was too small and isolated. Our board was the nine Zone Chairs and some referees. That was basically it. That wasn\u2019t good either.<\/p>\n

The professional structure is important and that has to underlie everything and make it work. From what little I\u2019ve seen. USA Water Polo has made that work.<\/p>\n

– To your point about a great organization in the making, on the national team level it\u2019s been half successful; the women are spectacular while the men remain a work in progress.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

The men have been a work in progress all along, with the one exception of the silver medal [in 2008] for which Rich Foster takes a lot of credit. The men\u2019s team has always been seventh and eighth, and even with Ratko Rudic, the best coach in the world, we weren\u2019t able to improve very much.<\/p>\n

It speaks to a lot of things we\u2019ve been discussing, and what little discussion I\u2019ve heard sounds the same. It’s a matter of the fact that our men and our children aren\u2019t taught or don’t grow up on water polo like they do in Europe.<\/p>\n

– The animosity towards Ramsey is both pronounced and entirely personal. He was formerly a chief fundraiser for a major New York City arts organization\u2014an essential skill given the financial challenges the organization faced when he arrived.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

Does this animosity reflect the tribalism that has existed in American water polo for decades?<\/strong><\/h3>\n

That I have no clue. What you relayed of some of his thinking as to why that is the case may very well play into that. Bear in mind that 15 years ago, if my memory is correct, our CEO and executive director\u2014who supposedly had the credentials because he had been an athletic director\u2014Tom Seitz\u2014made barely $100,000.<\/p>\n

When you talk about someone who\u2019s making close to $500,000, that\u2019s more money than people think it\u2019s worth in a volunteer organization, particularly one where one side is successful and the other side is not.<\/p>\n

[On The Record with USA Water Polo\u2019s Chris Ramsey: Present, Past, Future<\/em><\/a>]<\/p>\n

That Huntington Beach versus Newport Beach versus San Diego in California, particularly the [Olympic] Club versus Central Valley versus East Coast versus everyone hates Florida\u2026 there is a lot to that. And that was how the organization was run when Rich and I were in charge. Our job was to manage all that as volunteers.<\/p>\n

\"ramsey-smile-jul19\"

Chris Ramsey. Photo Courtesy: Artem Zinger<\/p><\/div>\n

Now that we have a professional organization that takes the power base away, I can see that as an issue but for people to get to the point where it\u2019s personal? I don’t know if that\u2019s enough of an explanation.<\/p>\n

I can relate to that because I experienced that [in water polo]. I had to mediate between Huntington Beach and San Diego\u2026 when you say \u201cSouthern California\u201d you don\u2019t mean San Diego. They\u2019re not Southern California! We had to mediate between that. We put one of the youngest [age group] tournaments in St. Louis all the time and everyone had to travel\u2014it was called The Speedo Cup\u2014to St. Louis. The California people were furious. \u201cWhy do we have to travel to the Midwest? We have to pull our kids out of school. Why can\u2019t they just come out here? We\u2019re all out here and we\u2019re always playing in the final rounds anyway\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n

That\u2019s the stuff we dealt with. We had to manage that because there were individual power bases. Creating a national training center was part of our way of moving away from being Newport Beach-centric.<\/p>\n

All of that plays together, and I think that Chris Ramsey would certainly get a lot of animosity because having centralized authority within the professional structure is going to take away from the power bases. But making that personal and hating the man himself and meaning he\u2019s a horrible person? That seems to be a step too far.<\/p>\n

And, he should be protected from that by his chairman and the volunteer board. That\u2019s what the board is there for\u2014to manage the politics.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In unraveling how USA Water Polo\u2019s current leadership\u2014including Board Chair Michael Graff and CEO Christopher Ramsey\u2014have dominated U.S. polo for the past 15 years, the thread leads to Terence Ma.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4875,"featured_media":462931,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"dois","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[3,7,12],"tags":[127492,127494,127493,67081,12677,22771,127495,1247,48355,749,127490,184,1756,68262,8351,22067,10022,126885,60192,22776,66478,5857,1248,83294,22066,127491,196,3613,113359,884],"class_list":["post-462903","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured","category-usa","category-water-polo","tag-al-frowiss","tag-alan-cima","tag-angie-birchler","tag-bahram-hojreh","tag-barbara-kalbus","tag-bill-barnett","tag-bombardier","tag-bruce-wigo","tag-christopher-ramsey","tag-colorado-springs","tag-cristy-sicard","tag-fina","tag-guy-baker","tag-j-w-krumpholz","tag-jim-linehan","tag-kurt-krumpholz","tag-liz-grimes","tag-michael-graff","tag-michael-randazzo","tag-mike-schofield","tag-orange-county-register","tag-ratko-rudic","tag-rich-foster","tag-russ-hafferkamp","tag-terence-ma","tag-tom-seitz","tag-united-states-olympic-committee","tag-usa-water-polo","tag-usawp","tag-usoc"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\r\nTerence Ma, Former VP of USA Water Polo, Reflects on Leadership - 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